How to stimulate User Growth of TW?

#41

Do you think it would be possible to have an Android version of TD (or TidGi) ?

There is already a GitHub - donmor/Tiddloid: Tiddloid is an app to work with locally stored TiddlyWikis.
And I have made a plugin GitHub - tiddly-gittly/tw-mobile-sync: Sync data between Mobile HTML (Tiddloid) <-> Desktop App (TidGi) . So there is no need for me to write another Android App!

It seems to be a TiddlyDesktop style tool that uses node.js (separate tiddlers) and saves directly to Github.

Yes, but you can create a local wiki, then you won’t need to know what Github is. Do you agree with that? Seems many of its new users will still try to connect to Github and bump into troubles…

And there are some API exposed to tw side from electron, like open file at location and get old version of file from git history. So some js plugin can use them.

#42

Ciao @EricShulman and @Mark_S

A footnote on the “naming issue”.

The fact is that USER reports can matter despite what you look-up on the net. (Please do not ask me to forage around in the prior GG swamp of posts about the name to prove that it has been a recurrent issue.)

Linguistic analysis of real language usage is always partial. A net search on it is often wrong.

IMO, the often occurring disquiet with “Tiddly” and “Tiddler” has an anthropological (observed) reality. To me that is ground zero on naming.

Just a comment
TT

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#43

Sure, and there’s also Quinoid.

But neither of these look like the desktop TW. With Electron, a user can have the same experience on the desktop, iPhone, and Android. I think this is the approach used by Joplin and Standard Notes. It wouldn’t have to be you personally that writes this – I was just wondering if you thought it was possible.

#44

Right. Quinoid I thought super.

Now I’m out of my depth :frowning:

Briefly, from “end-user” angle, anything that works seamlessly cross-browser may win???

TBH, the “stimulation of growth” maybe looks like the SALT of UNIVERSAL?

Just a comment, TT.

#45

Seems to stop updating in 0.0.8alpha three years ago? So I think Tiddloid is the only boot-loader on android now.

And electron can only develop the desktop app, mobile is not supported.

#46

Because there’s Tiddloid, which pretty much got Jeremy’s blessing. And because Android changes every day almost. The alpha is just to warn people to take care of their own data.

I’m pretty sure Joplin and Standard Notes are either using Electron, or maybe a shared interface developed in React ?

#47

Waiting for a Giffoid

1 Like
#48

Godot may be delayed caro.

#49

What I find interesting about the name of open source software is that there is nothing in the licenses about repackaging and renaming the product.

In early years - ‘Java’ has been named - GreenTalk, Oak, Silk, among others. Around 1990? ‘Oak’ was the name that was wished by Sun Microsystems as had a positive international vibe being the national tree of many countries - Well rooted, strong, expansive, branching, etc. A few years later… trademark violation! Then became ‘Java’.

Smalltalk by Alan Kay went through similar renaming and variations of which many still exist. Smalltalk, Squeak, Pharo. Going from ‘Squeak’ to ‘Pharo’ was very similar to the debate of TiddlyWiki’s name. ‘Pharo’ is much more professional sounding.

So if you do not like the TiddlyWiki name - then in your implementation of TiddlyWiki you can name it anything you want. You must must retain the TiddlyWiki copyright notice, and you can not say that your implementation is endorsed unless permitted by Jeremy/UnaMesa.

I am not a lawyer, so above may not be that simple.

I know Jeremy is very interested in community discussion and debate - But realistically, he invented it, built the foundation, promotes, guides, and whole hardheartedly supports it. As a community we should give him the respect to let him name it whatever HE wants!

7 Likes
#50

That strikes me as the best approach to the issue.

1 Like
#51

Right. Rightly so. Nice post.

That said, there is the residual issue of whether the “base-naming” remains troublesome or not.

(I’m kinda neutral on that issue now. But I think it is maybe sometimes an issue for some. Basically, properly understanding usage in common English language of “tiddly” and “tiddler” is not such a bad idea?)

Just a comment, TT

#52

@TiddlyTweeter
Well some are not afraid to look childish. Using the word directly to make sure everyone understands it. :rofl:

In relation to tiddlywiki. A child will need to learn everything about the world for the first time. Be constantly curious and learning. I would think that fits the description of many tiddlywiki users.

I do like @TW_Tones tiddlywiki platform

3 Likes
#53

Ciao @Birthe, I think that a very relevant reply; especially as your mother-tongue is not English.

I would say that TW (when “making”) can be a deep learning process.

TT

#54

Twenty years ago…

“There is going to be a company called ‘Twitter’ that will be worth billions of dollars.”

“‘Twitter’ that’s a childish name. So what do they sell to be worth all those billions of dollars?”

“They distribute information.”

“So, like a newspaper?”

“No - that is called a ‘blog’.”

“Sounds like a stupid name.”

“Might be, but ‘Twitter’ is limited to only 30 words or so.”

“That seems pretty useless, so people pay to get these words?”

“They are called - ‘tweets’, and it is free.”

“So - let me get this straight, there are ‘blogs’ that inform people about a company worth multi-billions of dollars called ‘Twitter’, which makes money by NOT selling ‘tweets’?”

“yep - and to find stuff there’s Google, DuckDuckGo, and Bing!”

“Right! I suppose next you will be saying ‘TiddlyWiki’ distributes information called ‘tiddlers’.”

“Well… I wouldn’t go that far - the name ‘TiddlyWiki’ is too silly!”

groan… “What’s the world coming to?”

#55

Here we go again, with the superfluous comparisons.

Names make a difference, especially if you 50 competing products and no advertising budget.

1 Like
#56

I do agree with @Mark_S that the name “TiddlyWiki” does hold us back.

Originally, I only regretted the name because I thought it was a silly joke. But over the years I’ve had consistent feedback that there is a significantly sized cultural group that finds the name at best patronising and at worst obscene. As @Mark_S says, it doesn’t matter many people we can find who like/tolerate the current name; we can’t ignore the consistency of the feedback that it’s a showstopper for a a significant group of people.

My current, loosely held view is that it would take a disproportionate effort to retrospectively change TiddlyWiki’s name, and we’d lose a significant amount of Google-fu. But, if I were ever to move on to a new version that was not intended to be fully backwards compatible then I would be inclined to adopt a new name.

6 Likes
Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki
TiddlyWiki is almost 20 years old!
Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki
Redrawing Motovun Jack
Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki
#57

To be honest, TiddlyWiki is nowhere near Obsidian. They’re not in the same niche, not appealing to the same users. It’s not fair to compare the two.

I think TiddlyWiki is more like a web-based Emacs, which is generally considered extremely powerful and great, yet few people want to use it. There’s no discussion on Hacker News about Obsidian, Roam or Zettelkasten without someome mentioning the awesomeness of Org-Mode (which is an Emacs “mode”).

Maybe TiddlyWiki belongs in that awesome yet-too-difficult-for-mere-mortals niche?

Personally, I found getting started and trying out TiddlyWiki (with persistence!) was absurdly hard to do. I have not come across any tool that is as hard to get started with! It took me a few hours to try and fail different ways of running TiddlyWiki. It’s a miracle I didn’t give up.

That is what you should be focussing on, letting people download something and start using it in 5 minutes. Not giving people paralysis over the choice between relatively poorly implemented tools for saving text to your disk (I mean, come on!).

TiddlyWiki is hard to operate, and doesn’t stand a chance compared to cloud solutions.

4 Likes
#58

This is another one of those posts that deserves re-tweeting!

I’m personally glad to see @jeremyruston’s considered opinion which makes great measured sense to me.

TT

1 Like
#59

We are getting enough community members who are devs or super users that there is a pressure towards a simpler “onboarding solution” that I think will be met. What that will look like really depends on how the community conversations go, and any incentives that drive development in one direction or another.

For an example, while researching my multiplayer solution I ran across this project with really good “cloud” onboarding flow:

GitBook - turn any collection of *.html or *.md (markdown) files into a git-history-backed asyc-collaborative “collection of virtual documenation/books”. They make it super simple to onboard, assume you already have a bunch of content you need to inject into their system, and allow set-up of teams/permissions easily. Lots of attention.

2 Likes
#60

The idea of a quick start is excellent. I am currently building a proof of concept “Make tiddlywiki your own” guided workflow that uses any information it can find to keep it as simple as possible.

What would a TiddlyWiki Quick start include?

[Edited] This starts here