Self-hosting Survey Results

Scroll down. TiddlyWiki is outdone by SilverBullet, which is only 3 years old.

It is what it is. I think the nature of that software differs quite a bit though. Most of these are highly hierarchical wiki/note environments (e.g. Nextcloud Notes, Joplin) which have a limited interface when it comes to linking and re-using information.

I recognise most of these and had a quick search for the others. I would say Obsidian (if set up a certain way), Outline, AFFiNE, Silverbullet and Logseq are closest to TiddlyWiki.

This is a survey for people who self-host (by implication for others) and we know from our own survey that most users use TiddlyWIki in a personal capacity. So we are looking at a very technical userbase in this survey, but Obsidian makes it very easy to share your wiki or just parts of it (which needs a custom solution in TW) - as well as having superb documentation, and I think that all contributes to its popularity.

I don’t think self-host implies “for others”.

Possibly, but Bookstack for example is quite high up and it is explicitly designed for small-to-medium enterprises, beyond just personal use. It has rich permissions features, for instance, and other aspects around the idea of multi-user collaboration.

But I will concede that we don’t know for certain how the participants use these applications, and it may be unwise to make assumptions on the aspect of sharing a wiki.

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i tried memos ( not a fan , couldn’t get flat files storage settings working , sql lol :roll_eyes: )
before returning to tw ( which is edging toward sql :laughing: )

but tbh for the most thought less (just drop the files on any httpd or in ./files :wink: )
“web view md notes” mdwiki really shines ..
until… ( you consider writing your own “gimmics” then its back to JS/square one )

tiddly wiki is like some kind of Interdenominational portal you can put text in to
… and modify the “portal spell’s” if you like ** but you get to keep the pieces ( or sometimes only your memory of them :grimacing: )

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That’s why I create https://github.com/tiddly-gittly/TidGi-Desktop and try to beat Obsidian Why is TiddlyWiki Beaten by Obsidian? , I will release it to public when reach v1.0 with WYSIWYG editor. And see if we could at least get 1 / 10 of Obsidian’s user back here.

At least TidGi’s website is self-hosted with TidGi and a home computer https://tidgi.fun/ .

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i had though about this and tbh

my thoughts keep returning to zerodevx/zero-md
“Ridiculously simple zero-config markdown displayer”
.GitHub - zerodevx/zero-md: Ridiculously simple zero-config markdown displayer · GitHub

i think markdown becoming non-standard standard
is big part of that why

its less md-viewer-thing vs tiddlywiki

and more markdown vs (tiddly)wiki-text

every thing is markdown ( i just found a “web-book” i bet its markdown … yep )

who ever can link their md-viewer-app-package with all the people looking for a markdown viewer
will get more users
id guess!

-edit-

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2004-01-01%202025-12-01&q=markdown&hl=en-US

In most time, I don’t use markdown or wikitext, I use WYSIWYG editor. And most of normal people does this too, even Obsidian users. Focus on “normal” user instead of geek users can get more users.

while this survey is interesting
it made me wish for something with a focus on wikis in general !
and i just happened to find this mention of a “pod cast” sort-of-about wikis

in fact Meta made me wander if a forum just about wiki software exists
probably too niche subject

( also wrt to tw users : Take the TiddlyWiki Community Survey 2025 )

i get your point , but … the survey is about self-hosting which i guess is kind of special interest

idk what brings ppl to tiddly wiki tbh
i heard / read some where a post from (timany? maintainer afair) why they moved on from TW
ahh its hear Notes by category

im hear on occasion still trying to re-live my youth full memory’s of

.Delicious (website) - Wikipedia

Search results for 'del.icio.us' - Talk TW along with a few other it seams

thinking a bit and making comparison between wiki’s should provide more insight in to the casual user perspective of other software

and what better place for such things than :wink:

..sort of the opposite perspective to
thinking & comparing wiki’s
is
users want to not think about them and just use them
to do the ting they are thinking about (quickly)

unobtrusive / functional software ftw * imho

I think there’s an interesting dynamic between the idea of TiddlyWiki as a note app vs wiki. I feel like there’s always been a gradual influx of new TiddlyWiki users who are looking for a Roam, Obsidian, or Evernote replacement. I still use a mix of both plain text file in folders and TiddlyWiki although I am always trying to fold more information into TiddlyWiki. I think it’s an interesting thought experiment to imagine there are no “casual” users but rather users who value certain features more so than others.

People who self-host value this digital autonomy vs people who are comfortable putting a folder full of notes in Dropbox. People who use Word or Google Docs may value WYSIWYG or just the ability to collaborate with other people who are less technical. The great thing about TiddlyWiki how there are a wide range of users who value different aspects of the software and might really use it in different ways. I would suspect people who self-host are not all using TiddlyWiki in the same way and I would be curious if there’s anything different they do with TiddlyWiki. IE, do they prefer single file or nodejs?

Obsidian and Joplin are not self-hosting per se. They can be self-hosted, just as TW can. So it’s a fair question why TW, after 10 years, didn’t even make the list, while other projects much younger did.

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Most astonishing to me is that Nextcloud Notes is Number 2.
Because the Nextcloud Notes really offers nothing special, the impressive place in this survey mainly shows the importance Nextcloud itself has reached as a plattform,

Thus it would be very usefull to have an Integration of TW in Nextcloud, perhaps as a DockerApp

Nextcloud provides a toolkit for this

Oh yeah, it’s unimpressive. I think most people who use NC notes are using some other app (Qownnotes, Quillpad) to access them. It’s mostly the idea that you can have some kind of centrally located note ready at any time that moves it to the top.

i saw similar in some respects question was posed about a band
i guess the answer can be found in nature of the hype cycles though our species history

makes me think of top :top_hat: hats
..and tbh

Monty python / Meaning of Life : “People are not wearing enough hats” :grin:

I know you said this some time ago, but on reflection I would like to comment.

The Merits of wikitext/markdown

I cant escape the fact I do exist in the “geek cohort” however I know that before I settled on TiddlyWiki I did inhabit the world of WYSIWYG and I quickly installed one into TiddlyWiki Classic, however I found I just did not bother with it. Not withstanding solutions like CodeMirror 6 provide a degree of WYSIWYG even in the editor, and its trivial to have the output preview and form of markdown/markup such as TiddlyWiki wiki text are trivial to learn, WYSIWIG is usually in a mouse driven environment and stores more data in the document to accommodate WYSIWYG than markup/down do.

My point here is regardless of the apparent expectation of WYSYWYG I have found markup/down/wiki text to be the optimal way to interact with content generation and it empowers further automation and development as the underlying data is simpler and more deterministic.

I don’t mind if the best way (in my view) is not the most popular, all I care is I have access to the best solution. MacDonalds burgers are arguably the most popular but they all pale into insignificance when compared to an Australian “Burger with the Lot” which includes beetroot, pineapple, eggs, bacon and a lot more, basically all food groups :nerd_face:

We should not be defeated by the popular, when the popular is usually the beige and lowest common denominator. Sure provide options and plugins for the “needy”, but don’t undermine what TiddlyWiki does well.

There still remains a lot of productive people who prefer the keyboard especially when generating complex or optimal solutions and they go way beyond me, see vim and other options on top of TiddlyWiki. I am happy to use my mouse when needed to access the editor toolbar etc… but If I am productively “Writing contents” I am happy not to be distracted by the way things look, beyond what I know, such as headings, bullets, and titles and links (ctrl-L) in editor.

  • So if you are expanding into LLM’s as I have, using ChatGPT it provides its output in whatever form you ask but defaults to markdown that our markdown plugin supports.

Frankly, I’m not likely to use TiddlyWiki offline because Zim is right there (a native app!) and I’m not likely to use it online because nowadays there are much lighter alternatives. Moreover, TiddlyWiki has become more of a framework for building custom solutions. People like me who just need a wiki are the minority here now and need to look elsewhere. Last year’s big survey made that amply clear.

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I tried Zim for awhile. But it has no Android app, limiting it to the desktop. And just to confuse things, there is now a telecom company by the same name that does have an app.