Make TiddlyWiki your own - discussion

#15

Just to be clear on the Original Thread. I am keen to get the supporting tools so users can make any edition their own, from tiddlywiki accessible solution to anyone’s published wiki so I would like us to focus on the underlying method and the guidance to users and for designers to implement.

There is no reason for each of us to do this on our own and a consistent and tested reusable solution that we can refine and enhance together is what I hope to inspire.

There are some good ideas here for inclusion in a “standard” tiddlywiki, and other special editions but lets deal with these separately.

Can we discuss the “Make it your Own” process in this thread.

  • How can we minimise the the need for steps to take.
  • How can we reduce the choices that must be made.
  • Minimise the the amount of “need to know”, the user can always learn more when they are ready to.
  • Give them the power to customise but only after they decide they want to.
#16

In the spirit of collaboration I continue to publish in this thread my thinking on this subject, I would love your feedback and if possible joining me in this endvour.

When we consider the various ways to save or host a tiddlywiki the combinations get complex quickly. What I would like with a “Make TiddlyWiki your own” is a specific way to obtain and use a standalone wiki built to achieve particular requirements.

Once users are “sold on TiddlyWiki” they could obtain a private or publicly hosted wiki (tiddlyhost) or simply installing Timimi and/or Webdav, applications (TiddlyDesktop) or server options (Node, Bob) makes sense and yes we can improve these options with guided installs. These options require some local permissions not every one has and introduces a few more variables like Browser brand and Operating systems.

It seems to me people will do the necessary steps if motivated to do so, the effort they will expend is proportional to the degree of motivation. This motivation can include;

  • Make use of the functionality they see on the site they are looking at
  • If they see the potential of tiddlywiki in general - this is not so easy to sell
  • If they fancy themselves at creating solutions they will later publish
  • Fear of Missing out - lets say we offer half a dozen applications they can review or acquire easily if they provision a local solution, a lot of people will want to see them all, this may be enough motivation to put in a little more effort. If they install Timimi as an example they can quickly acquire a few TiddlyWikis to review and play with.

Give these above thoughts it seems to me there is value in us keeping things simple but promoting and stimulating their motivation to take a few more steps to over come the install steps needed.

  • In fact for many users familiar with downloading and installing applications they may be quite happy to do this without question as long as what they have seen already justifies this.
  • In this case I think we need to provide a high level of functionality that they can use for some time before they need to look at other options.

A few solutions can be published on line that pique users interest and a install solution provided that unlocks them all using a single install guide.

I have started a New discussion The essential editions of TiddlyWiki with a view to identifying an “essential collection” to include in an installable solution.

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The essential editions of TiddlyWiki
How to stimulate User Growth of TW?
#17

Good approach, I think I will add a link to this kind of TiddlyWiki editions gallery, alongside with a button to download TidGi, and tell people all these can be created and use with TidGi app (don’t even need to tell anything about the saving mechanism, because saving happens naturally/automatically)

And I will suggest my friends in QQ group to add button like “Make this my own” in their public wiki

#18

Thanks @linonetwo for your support but lets collaborate on the "Make this my own” so we can have a similar look and feel and we can innovate and evolve it over time to more sophisticated setups. I have at least a dozen useful hacks and methods to share on this.

#19

OTOH, tiddlyhost is by far the most intuitive saving-solution for a newbie. Why not lead with it?

Perhaps tiddlyhost can’t really accommodate an influx of accounts from merely-curious experimenters, and of course it has maintenance costs (toward which I donate). BUT if such limits were no obstacle, I’d say it’s obvious that tiddlyhost offers the most friendly sandbox for saving projects.

So, conversely from what you suggest, I’d say after you’re sold on what TiddlyWiki can do, THEN if your priorities include having a non-web-hosted (or intranet-hosted, etc.) solution, you can learn your way around how to work directly with saving html files on your own machine(s).

(I admit my feeling here is shaped by needing to hop among computers/devices all the time. Finding a hassle-free hosted solution has thus been essential from the beginning.)

-Springer

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#20

It may have toxic lead in it? :slight_smile:. I think that is part of the issue. Terminology.

Getting the issues sharp enough to know what to do seems an endless saga :slight_smile: with segues.

TT

Bootstrapping (inter)personal / community editions
#21

I responded to a mention of the Default saver and mobiles How to stimulate User Growth of TW? - #98 by TW_Tones in this reply and link to it given its relevance to this thread.

The "nut behind the wheel"
#22

Maybe later, I’m recently all focus on WYSIWYG editor…

But I do want to do something on this, recently some people try to learn how to use tw from my public wiki, I could have provide a shortcut for them to understand what I’ve used in my wiki and how to make these thing theirs.

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#23

Sorry for the slight digression but I just want to say that your WYSIWYG editor is one of the thing that I believe is essential for improving growth - it promotes equity by making writing easier for new users. As always, thanks a lot for sharing your work!

Back to the topic of this thread, IMO this editor would be perfect for a “casual” tiddlywiki edition - abstraction of wikitext is gold for new users and the quickest way for them to start writing content.

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#24

Further on a Make this your own process.

Often the only way to make simple things, especially when based on technology, we need very good technical solutions to do the hard work for us, appear invisible, yet deliver the results.

My key example of this I am developing is part of The essential editions of TiddlyWiki and a sharable make-tiddlywiki-your-own facility.

I have started here with this alpha [Edited to link to Edition Topic] Essential Editions: Personal Notebook edition - development and feedback once downloaded it can see it is no longer at the published address and can a “run once” guide to do various setup things.

Possible Setup things
Once a user has downloaded a Wiki the are making their own we could facilitate the following;

  • Get them to close the source Wiki so they dont make changes there, and use their new local wiki.
  • Open the wiki with a link with a named target eg wikiname, so use of the same link opens it in the same tab, rather than multiple tabs, where one can save over the other.
  • Provide a tool to create a bookmark even a smart bookmarklet to the same target (details later)
  • Possibly use a cookie on the source wiki to store information about their own localised wiki
    • A “You have installed this wiki locally” message perhaps even with a link.

Then we need to guide/address the save/autosave issues and mechanisms from the default method through to others.

  • Remember we want the first, and subsequent experience to be simple and smooth
    • What do we use here? Default saver, File Backups add on, direct to Timimi?
  • Once they are getting value from one or more tiddlywikis we can point them to other smarter options like TiddlyDesktop, bob, TiddlyServer, WebDav implementations that give them the freedom to create and share wikis at least on the Local network or between devices.
    • Ideally the various editions will guide users on how to get their edition into any one of these solutions.

You can see from the potential complexity here I think we need to collaborate and build a shared path to enable this. Especially once we include methods for mobile devices.

#25

I listed this WYSIWYG in The essential editions of TiddlyWiki

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#26

Thank you very much for your excelent Customizer Plugin, Dave. However, as it changes the core, once you installed, even if you uninstall it, there are remnants of the plugin that don’t go away and stay in the TW. Would it be too much to request that included in the plugin be a way to completely return the TW to its original state?

#27

Yes, it would be too much to request that. :slight_smile:
But seriously, the plugin itself only has one core tiddler. You can delete that and it will be restored to default.

The user’s customization is only a matter of adding or deleting tags from tiddlers. And they are customizations the user wanted. So it’s just as if they made those customizations without the plugin. I just made it easier for them. Also, if I made it so that by uninstalling the plugin I undid all the CSS and other changes the user has made, there would be users complaining that they uninstalled the plugin but they didn’t want their customizations to disappear. And I think the only way to do what you ask would be to have all tags removed, which would affect even the customization that users did without the Customizer plugin.

#28

Thanks for your prompt answer, Dave.

#29

Sorry it’s not the one you hoped for, Alfonso!

#30

@TW_Tones Thank you for posing this question.
(As well as for all you who work to make it easier for the new and naive end user!)

Having very recently switched from Windows to Mac I certainly fall in the non-tech category, but being as blown away after having seen what can be done with TW as I am, my commitment to making this work is deep… Usually I end up making things work even if I cannot replicate it or explain why it worked, but to - at least partially - confirm what’s been written:

I posted my question earlier (on syncing / how to take notes from both my phone and MacBook using OneDrive) - the plethora of options / methods for saving, combined with my lack of knowledge on how to execute them and whether they meet my ‘cross-platform requirement’ is an obstacle I cannot seem to overcome…

> (I have tinkered with EverNote, OneNote, Marvin and Notion before, and my current note taking set up is a combination of a nifty excel sheet I can also add data to using power automate, and the iOS Notes app although using shortcuts for backlinks is a bit cumbersome)

I do not know if it’s even possible to make this simple, but if I from the start would be limited to only using TW on my desktop / MacBook I would sadly conclude TW is not for me.
So I’m hoping my post keeps the possibility open to somehow keeping the “sophisticated and comprehensive multi-browser, OS and server options” also for the newbies…

– – :sunflower: – –

(My apologies if I’m breaking posting convention by cross linking - it does seem this topic attracts the persons who may very skilfully help with my question, but I also wanted to do a shout out to the wonderful minds that drive TW and show my willingness to serve as an enthusiastic potential TW-user devoid of technical skills but willing to test things if that helps creating some sort of starter kit / way to make TW your own if you have absolutely no clue on how to use GitHub or set up a server…)

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#31

Mya, perhaps you have reasons not to go this route, but tiddlyhost is the zero-hassle cross-platform (including mobile) saves-without-a-worry solution for me. You can set it up to have private wikis (visible only if you’re logged in via tiddlyhost), as well as publicly web-browsable ones.

I think it’s a great way to become familiar with tiddlywiki. If your project needs get sophisticated and you have reasons to maintain your project on OneDrive on Dropbox (or whatever), you can fiddle later with the various configuration aids that enable you to achieve those goals.

Happy exploring to you!

-Springer

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#32

Mya as @Springer said tiddlyhost.com is an excellent, easy and free option, but requires connectivity to it on the internet but no other configuration.

There is certainty tiddlywiki is;

  • The key problem is by definition newbies are not always “sophisticated”, almost by definition.

Keep in mind tiddlywiki is just a file, so just as you can transfer any file, email, USB file share are all fairly easy.

  • However what drives human invention is laziness and we all like the simplest possible, without needing to do something repeatedly.
  • Never the less I think as a community we are likely to help tiddlywiki be supported on any and every platform as possible, and almost forever.
    • This is actually relatively easy, given TiddlyWiki use of global standards
    • however there are plenty of hackers that force changes, and innovations that eventually break things, so it is a continuous process.

A lot needs to break before tiddlywiki will. Worst case (and impossible) scenario, edit it directly and extract your content.

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#33

When I decided to give TiddlyWiki a shot, I was a “TiddlyWiki newbie”, but still very competent with a computer. I came from Emacs org-mode and Zettlr, which both use text files that are stored locally. Before that, I had used Evernote and Notion, which are cloud services.

I think we should take both complete newbies into account and people like me, who are used to the concept of storing notes on a computer.

Even if we only present one way to save TiddlyWiki, we should explain that other ways are possible. This is one of TiddlyWiki’s selling points to more advanced users; you decide where you want to store your notes, and you can always migrate easily if you change your mind.

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#34

Hi, thank you for pointing out tiddlyhost! (I’m seriously elated with all there is to TW - something I expect to get a grip on fairly quickly, but the set up is my big issue indeed).

Being a researcher and avid reader (I do go outside sometime but not very voluntarily :nerd_face: ) with some side projects that carry a lot of images…so I’m guessing tiddlyhost would - probably kindly, but still - kick me to the curb sooner than later.

Perhaps I’ll explore the possibility of using links to files stored on my OneDrive instead of bringing them into my TW and indeed turn to tiddlyhost if I can’t get it to work with OneDrive / Sharepoint. So thanks again, I need a KISS reminder every now and then!