I also prefer this, especially when I am experimenting with new ideas or when I am adding new plug ins to my wiki. Also I name and number the new wikis based on the plug in or idea added - so it’s easy to find out cause of bugs if we discover them only at a later time.
If it worked on mobile I might reluctantly concede.
The default fallback saver works properly on recent versions of iOS on iPhone and iPad. I’m not sure about Android, but the only requirement is a browser that can download files, which I think now is most of them.
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On Android you can’t set the download location, have a pick-file dialog for the location, overwrite the original files, and it mangles both the prefix and suffix of the original file name in unexpected ways.
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I have to admit I find myself grabbing a copy from tiddlywiki.com or tiddlywiki.com/prerelease for quick note taking, or experimenting, and using the default “download saver” often, but not as often as I’m starting or restarting the local node server.
But I think Offray puts it well in their new thread:
As usual, we try to simplify infrastructure to amplify/diversify participation.
Some people are more used to an experience where the data-storage is handled “in the background”, and even juggling multiple standalone wiki files (and their backups) can be overwhelming. I think single file wikis are one of the key features of tiddlywiki. But it has taken me a while to understand how tiddlywiki renders an HTML page from-itself-in-active-memory (standalone download saver, or when you first hit that page load request on the node server), and that this process of filtered-transclution-template-rendering can be used to render OTHER static HTML content. Now I want TWaaS, because exporting standalone “published” wikis with a subset of content, or as deep-storage backups is a great idea.
More thoughts after my job interview. 
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@joshuafontany “Break a leg” - TWaaS starts with tiddlyhost of course.
Tiddliod works well and you can provide a link to a Wiki to install it the first time. But yes tiddloid is not the default saver.
I am trying in now on my Andriod 11 - firefox browser, Once downloading it prompts to open and lets you select an app and oddly firefox is not one of them, but I opened it in chrome and this is the resulting address content://media/external_primary/downloads/13642 this suggests to me its a “special protocol” and firefox is not currently aware of it.
Of course the “default fallback saver” is important, the main issue is one needs to either;
- keep the downloaded file under downloads
- Place the downloaded file somewhere else
The problem comes about with subsequent use, it typically relies on the user remembering something on all platforms when;
- They return to the URL where they downloaded it from that is not their wiki, although it may look identical, their wiki is on local storage.
- If recognising it is stored locally finding and loading it, this often requires an action outside the browser and sending it to the browser.
As a result of these kinds of complications I started the discussion Make TiddlyWiki your own - discussion for this very purpose.
The issue is not so much the download saver it is the workflow and the user remembering to return to the saved wiki going forward.
There may be an opportunity somewhere in browsers, guidance info, or the workflow to assist with this. In other product’s available they can install a PWA - progressive webapp and this comes with various bells and whistles but still users the browser “engine”.
- After all we can provide the button to save the wiki in tiddlywiki thus provide guidance and tools.
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Package it as an app available on all the major platforms and include a proper (read: seamless) syncing mechanism. I’ve been using Tiddlywiki for my entire adult life, and the thing that keeps me looking for and trying other options is the difficulty in getting Tiddlywiki to sync seamlessly between both my phone and laptop. Currently I use both Google Keep and Tiddlywiki, the former to jot down thoughts when out and about, or when I otherwise don’t have my laptop handy, and the latter to journal (expand upon thoughts I’ve had over the day, or week). It feels disjointed using two apps, but as it stands, Tiddlywiki doesn’t meet my needs by itself, due to the lack of a seamless user-friendly synching mechanism.
@Elijah although I think we should make it easier and more obvious this has already being addressed many times, The use of syncing is but one way to address this and in my view not a good one. i made some suggestions here How are conflicts dealt with in Tiddlywiki when idiots like me are involved? - #10 by TW_Tones
I made a thread so that we can discuss potential names for tiddlywiki :
As someone who is just starting to play with TW and have started sharing the link around with friends, I think that the first major hurdle that TW needs to overcome is its design. The UI/UX looks like it was designed by programmers, not designers (I say that as a programmer myself, part of a team that has 40% just User Experience and Visual Designers).
It is, in my experience, when a professional designer takes wireframes (in our case, the app itself!) and does visual treatment that the apps suddenly gel and feel fresh and professional.
That applies also to the content on the homepage, etc.
Visual Designers have a different angle that even design-sensitive developers don’t. It’s the last phase that makes an app become a product.
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I think the most basic thing most new users are going to want to do is to change the appearance of Tiddlywiki to make it their own. We tell folks to refer to the official documentation and most answers are there if you understand how to read it. But if you don’t, your brand new, and search tiddlywiki.com for “appearance” what you DON’T get is an explanation of the appearance tab in the control panel and how to use it. Many won’t even make it that far. They’ll search the empty download for “appearance” or “help” as you might have in a traditional application and not find anything. Many new users to any application if they can’t figure something out in a couple of minutes will simply abandon it and say it’s too hard. What is simple for an experienced user or intuitive for a computer professional is often not for casual users. Yes, the experienced users can and have built a huge amount of help resources but not having any help built into the default download makes the “sell” to new users far more difficult.
I think you are right.
Just a comment, TT
Most apps I’m familiar with don’t you let you change the appearance much under any circumstances.
If you type “appearances” into the search bar at tiddlywiki.com, the sixth entry under the “all matches” section is Customising TiddlyWiki’s user interface .
How much can you tweak wikimedia? Notion? Evernote? Pretty limited I’m guessing.
The empty download is a minimal build perhaps best left to experienced tiddlywiki users and has never being in my view useful for new users. I am building a personal notebook edition to demonstrate making editions that “users can make use of, out of the box”. Do have a look @PaulH and anyone else Personal Notebook — A TiddlyWiki Essentials Edition and tell me;
- What you think?
- What other missing information you think is essential to new users to “encourage adoption”
- The various sidebar info tabs are in plane english words and if removed from the sidebar will be found with search.
This is my practical attempt to address possibilities raised this thread How to stimulate User Growth of TW?
I plan to post a link to a discussion on this edition shortly but I have had no feedback yet I am building an edition for the community - how do we handle this in Discourse
@TW_Tones
I had a look at your personal notebook. To be honest I think it looks a little too busy. I also asked myself, why would you want 2 favorite plugins and a rating macro. Select, what you like best - and in your explanation you can link to and explain about the other options. I am afraid it will be too crowded otherwise. Or if you want to be complete - maybe think of Thomas Elmigers MyStory plugin - the one with the bookmarks. tid.li Plugins — A TiddlyWiki Plugin Source
Nice to see you taking up this task.
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Every Microsoft Office product lets you customize their appearance and layout most of which are now free. MS OneNote which is comparable to Tiddlywiki and Evernote has built in help, is free, and comes pre-installed on most Windows computers. It’s accessible via browsers, has phone apps, and auto-saves constantly to your Microsoft account auto-syncing with no setup. You go into the program hover your mouse over a light bulb that says “What do you want to do?” start typing and it just brings up the options, not instructions. Zero learning curve. That’s the competition with average computer users.
https://tiddlywiki.com/#Customising%20TiddlyWiki’s%20user%20interface needs specialized knowledge to be helpful a brand new person may not have.
If the average computer user is happy using MS OneNote, why would they look for anything else?
What got me to come over from MS OneNote was two things.
In OneNote exporting your data you’re limited to pdf or copy/paste both of which often loose formatting and layout because of how OneNote works. I’ve used the print to pdf option of a Tiddlywiki in my browser many times and never lost any of the visual formatting.
Second, OneNote doesn’t do dynamic data views such as what you can do with list filters or many of the transclusion options Tiddlywiki has. You can import from Excel but it doesn’t auto-update for example. I often demonstrated to others how much time can be saved with those options in Tiddlywiki.
For example, I use mine for a form of Bullet Journal. In a traditional hard copy Bullet Journal many people track things they do daily and make summary pages. That is done manually and can take a lot of time , but with Tiddlywiki I have summary tiddlers setup with tables and list filters which does the same thing but dynamically as I make changes to my individual journal entries saving a ton of time and effort. In other words, in a normal Bullet Journal it can feel like you are entering something twice or more but in my Tiddlywiki I only do it once. Again, this is something I couldn’t do in OneNote.
Paul, you are correct
And help facilities extensive. However you need to keep one thing in mind. To get there you or your organisation have decided to opt into or subscribe to the Microsoft suite or cloud services and this is in itself a big decision based on a third party.
- With tiddlywiki we do want to be somewhat independent of third parties.
- Could we get the same outcomes without a commitment to third parties?
Perhaps you could consider proposing or publishing an Essential edition.