Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki

#128

True, but they can be couched in ways that don’t do that too strongly:

… after some other questions about, say TW usage

  1. Do you find the name “Tiddlywiki”
  • Appealing
  • Pleasant enough, but irrelevant
  • No opinion
  • Slightly strange
  • Annoying

I’m not really recommending this. I don’t think we need a survey or a focus group for this. This is something for Jeremy to decide, with input from the user community.

(I used to own the domain “lietopollsters.org” thinking I might write an anti-polling site. I let it lapse, but am generally not a big fan of polling for such things._

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#129

I did not think about it. That’s true.
There is to evaluate if it’s worth it (I don’t know if it is, I just thought I’d put the idea out there.)

#130

How about a related short name, like TiWi?

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#131

We have the Tiwi Islands near Australia

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#132

TiWi.ki is expensive but free…

#133

I also think the name can be kept. …

My main language is German. One “normative” and well known institution for the German language is duden.de

Searching for: TiddlyWiki, tiddler, tiddly, tiddli, tiddlywinks or toddler do not return any result at all.

For “wiki” we do get the usual suspects. Wiki on its own doesn’t have any negative impact.

I think in the German language the word TiddlyWiki also “sounds good” and it’s easy to speak. IMO that’s an advantage. … At least for me.

The same is true for “tiddler”. It sounds good and is easy to pronounce.

On the other hand: “tidbits” or “tidWiki” are harder to pronounce and the later even is “kind of” broken in German.

Some users wrote, that they use “note” instead of “tiddler”. … That would be perfectly fine for me. Note is translated to “Notiz”, which usually implies to be “short”. A “Notiz” can be a fragment or can make sense on it’s own. …

So I wouldn’t have any problem to “search and replace” tiddler → note in the whole TW docs. We probably would need to fix the grammar for many sentences, but that would probably be-it.

This would let TiddlyWiki be the only “strange” thing for the project name.

If that’s not good enough and Wiki is the main “bummer” just rename it to: “eton” which is Note in reverse.

Since Eton is a place “note-like” may work → EkilEton or short EE may be stupid but cool.

For EE we should be able to come up with something that would make sense in many languages.

just my thoughts
-m

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#134

The issue with tidbit and renaming tiddler to tid, is that the plural equivalence for tiddlers would be “tids”, which for most Spanish speakers/listeners would sound pretty similar to “tits”, and despite we don’t use a the word in English is popular enough in several context to know what it means in English and its translation in Spanish. In several cultures over here we don’t have problems with being mammals and we are not over sexualizining nipples or forbidding pictures of them. But it would cause more that one joke when trying to do workshops or classes regarding the use of tids, while tiddlers has not that problem.

I think that renaming, if happen, would need to think in international context and pronunciations. Something with vowels after consonants that doesn’t facilitate misspronunciation would be a good inclusion criteria, like: Nexo, wikinexo, microwiki, and rizowiki and so alikes.

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#135

@Offray , it doesn’t sound similar. It would be how we don’t differenciate the sound of bit and vid (vine in English)

#136

Are you from Spain? I asume that because it can sound pretty different there, as like happens with sounds of “c”, “s” and “z”, that are pretty distinct when spoken in the Spanish from Spain and sound pretty similar in the Spansh from several other countries in Latin America. Same with “tids” and “tits” ( the final “ts” and “ds” can be pretty indistinguishable for several Spanish variations).

#137

So, is our goal creating just a new title, or a new title and naming scheme for internal elements like “tiddlers”?

Are we looking for something to replace the whole “TiddlyWiki”, or the suffix of “Wiki”, and/or just the prefix of “Tiddly”?

For instance, when I create new Tiddlywiki, I usually use “Tiddly” or “Tiddler” as a prefix for what kind of proj. it is.

For instance, I keep a “TiddlerArchive” of all unused but useful to have tiddlers, stuff like misc. templates, macros, etc.

And my main TiddlyWiki is called a “TiddlerLibrary” where I store all my active and indev projects.

The community does this a good bit too, so picking something that doesn’t really lend itself to that could be a downside, right?

TiddlyWiki.com itself is a Wiki for the software/application called “TiddlyWiki”, so I wasn’t too sure what our aim is as a whole, but I’d like to propose finding a different word to use in place of Tiddly/Tiddler

Side note on the topic of the suffix of wiki, a Wiki is usually defined as a database that is collaboratively worked on, but do we have a word for a database that is only worked on by a indevidual? (Other than, ya know- database…)

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#138

The goal is to find a name for an eventual V2 of tiddlywiki, that is a bit less silly while being distinctive, as per the first post of this thread:

Since the term tiddler come from tiddlywiki, changing the name may imply changing the term used for tiddlers, if appropriate.

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#139

Thank you for the clarification, I wanted to make sure to stay on track with everybody. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

After reading through everything, I’d cast my vote on either calling the app “Tiddler” (and the website Tiddler Wiki) which IMO has a more modern look to it, and is mainly just linked to tiddlywiki and would still work with googles analytics witchcraft (and the tiddlers “Tids”) or just calling the app “TidWiki” and the tiddlers “tids” or “tidbits”, which is pretty appealing too.

Just a sidenote, the acronym aspect of Tids is fun to play with, something like “Tiddler/TidWiki Intelligent Document” works nicely.

Edit: an addendum is that if tiddlers were shortened to tids, the fields would be the tidbits, as they are technically the smallest unit of data, a d tiddlers themselves are field lists, 2nd smallest unit of measurement.

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#140

It sounds good and unique in french too, at least for me. So, if it’s not really broken, just don’t fix it, and use your spared work to make the product greater instead.

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#141

You are right. And you are right again. I knew the different pronuntiation of “c” or “z” as “s”, but I didn’t stop to try to know the reason, I think I see it now. They are pretty similar cases (“c/z” as “s”, “d” as “t”, “v” as “b”)

#142

TIDE

Tiddler
Integrated
Development
Environment

Tiddler
Internet
Design
Enhancement

=> TIDEA. ??

TIDES

Tiddlywiki
Internet
Design
Exploration
System

Transclusionary
Interesting
Design
Expansion
System

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#143

by this logic Tiddlywiki would need a name that is highly flexible in use and both used modernly and since old ages.

I’d wager something like IronNotes or being that it is based off a small fish, a tiddly, OceanWiki, where every tiddler is a fish?

@Pmario, is there a way to split this into a pre-existing tgread regarding the naming of TiddlyWiki? I’m on mobile and I can’t find the optionoption, I don’t recall if its possible to. :thinking:

(Nevermind! found the option haha)

Why is TiddlyWiki Beaten by Obsidian?
#144

Since @Justin_H quotes me on this, I will note that I have a difficult time conceiving of what a good alternative name would be, possibly because the obvious ones have been taken – Obsidian, Notion, EverNote… any derivation of those, I think, would not do TiddlyWiki justice.

And, as said in the quoted post, I don’t know that I am fully advocating for a name change, however:

In situations like this, I tend to think that it’s best to take a step back and try and change our thinking about things.

The TW cat, I believe, is a very good icon. People like cats, cats are internet, it’s simple, and it has good contrast. IMO, it’s the strongest TW brand-element.

Now, I don’t want us to think along the lines of CatNotes or anything like that. Again, we should be looking for things that combine imagery with the core philosophy – the latter being something to which the TiddlyWiki name was obviously aiming.

I don’t personally have the solution to this, but will say that the cat, as imagery, has special meaning to me because of the phrase “Borders are porous to cats.”

To me, the cat then is very appropriate imagery for TiddlyWIki which, compared to the other tools on the market, is all about breaking down barriers: not only because of it’s open source and highly customizable nature, and because the nonlinear style of notekeeping overcomes the “structural borders” of hierarchical notetaking, but because of its wide international community, and our community-values of mutual aid: supporting each other’s projects, finances, and enthusiasm as possible and appropriate, and prioritizing patience, respect, and understanding.

Without having done a deep-dive in any of the tools of the other communities mentioned, I really believe these are values that set us apart.

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#145

On a bit more reflection, the other thing TiddlyWiki brings to mind are some of the principles outlined in Robert Pirsig’s books (particularly Lila in which he describes a zettelkasten system and goes into great detail about the nonlinear philosophy).

Those might be good places to look as well.

#146

Sorry to reply to two threads… I realize this is the better thread on which to say:

TidWiki

is available as domain name. Lowest possible shiftover cost. Retains associations. Avoids the TiddlyGiggle effect.

It’s earlier in this thread, but I want to bump it for renewed consideration.

At the very least, scooping up the domains (.com and .org) — and putting in for whatever quasi-legal claims can be made — would be prudent … Such step would keep this most obvious option open.

#147

Unsure about TidWiki, but I am sure that “the TiddlyGiggle effect” should be coined as a @Springer’ism

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