Why is TiddlyWiki Beaten by Obsidian?

#64

I disagree with this assessment (being something of a student of linguistics).

Git is a short word, one syllable, and uses primarily “hard” sounds (G and T) – in English, these are characteristics of “Strong” sounding names. It also doesn’t really have any connotative connections to other words – ‘get’ might be the closest, but that is not a word with strong imagery associated with it.

Tiddlywiki, on the other hand, starts strong, but softens in the middle, giving it a more playful sounds. Lots of words in english, undercut hard sounds by doubling them up and adding ‘ly’, making them sound more playful or childish (diddly, giggly, fiddly, wiggly, squiggly). Also, it sounds quite a reminiscent of “Tiddlywinks” which is a child’s game (and a bit of an archaic one at that).

On the other hand, we have “Obsidian,” which is literally a stone, one which has significant importance to the species and was essential to toolmaking. It does not round in the middle, rounds on the ends and the d represents a hard stop in the middle.

2 Likes
Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki
#65

see Git (slang) - Wikipedia

Also consider another previously silly word: “Google” (a misspelling of the mathematical term “Googol”), which is similar to a baby’s “gurgle” (nonsense babbling), or perhaps “googly eyes”.

And, before Google, we had “Yahoo!” Yahoo (Gulliver's Travels) - Wikipedia which Swift described as “filthy with unpleasant habits… a brute in human form”.

For my take on the meaning of “TiddlyWiki” see: https://tiddlytools.com/InsideTW/#WhatsInAName.

-e

3 Likes
#66

A “hard sounding” insult which is also not common in american-english – I’ve only heard it used in the context of british TV or movies. In American media, closest use is in the context of Cowboy Flicks ("'git along")

also has a hard sounds in the middle – and, as you point out, is undercut if you add an ‘ly’ as in “googly”

I don’t think gullivers travels is most people’s reference for yahoo, lol, it’s evocative of “Yahoo” as in celebration or excitement. And also, yahoo is not a widely popular platform anymore for a reason :slight_smile:

Very good read, though, and I agree the assessments you make there.

I really have no motivation in arguing that it’s an especially silly word – like I said, I like the name fine and don’t really care about user-growth. I can just say confidently, from personal experience, that it’s a very silly sounding name to most Americans. While, as you point out, there are other words that have some of the silly characteristics I’ve described, none of them have all of the silly characteristics about ‘Tiddlywiki’ particularly.

I do have a hunch that if (read ‘when’ or ‘as is happening’) American English declines on the world stage, TiddlyWiki will gain popularity :wink:

1 Like
#67

I’m not sure if TidGi app is a good name, while I checked it with GPT3.5 before (It was only 3.5 at that time). TidGi is my solution to match Obsidian, it contains WYSIWYG editor and Calendar etc. that Obsidian has out-of-box, so comptetion is fair.

I’ve translated TW to 太微 in Chinese, which is a good name.

4 Likes
#68

TidGi
TaiJi

太微 <<< if possible help me to understand this
Thanks

Are great names

I love TiddlyWiki and lots of respect to you all
But it’s a pain in the neck to type to communicate verbally or as filenames etc
It’s too cute

I end up naming my folder filed TW5… etc

I remember tiddlywinks age 7 in England :+1:

It’s was fun and full of surprises
and we learned skills to go with quasi random physics.
Part skill ~ Part luck
Playing guitars with a pick (plectrum) for 50+ years now likely uses tiddlywinks early muscle happy fun memory!
.
Which =~ kind of the beauty and pain of TiddlyWiki
especially when trying to serve it up for non-programmers or people who have real projects they are seeking a platform to use.
To publish edit select re-format & grow

I complement TidGi for terrific recent effort to make it more widely accessible = more useful software.
But also for a cool short name

Kudos everyone

3 Likes
#69

In regards to a stronger name for tiddlywiki, I have made a comment regarding an alternative for a name that would likely be taken more seriously by non users, and linked it to a preexisting thread for anyone curious.

A post was merged into an existing topic: Let’s brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki

#70

I would also be interested in learning more about your translation, @linonetwo :slight_smile:

TidGi doesn’t really ring correctly to my ear, the best I can do is if I pronounce it such as “Tidgy,” which at least had the benefit of rolling off the tongue, but I don’t really understand where the Gi comes from (Gittly I always assumed).

And I personally would want to find something that communicates something about the core philosophy. Obsidian sounds “cool and hard” but I think it also lacks this core philosophy ideal. Notion is a fantastic example of a name which has both – it is a catchy, sticky word that’s easy to say and also very clearly evokes imagery that’s reflective of its purpose and philosophy.

As I’ve said here and elsewhere, “Tiddlywiki” is a good stab at what a name should be – but that’s wildly undercut by the fact that “Tiddler” is not a very common word anymore, and so it needs explanation. I’m fairly well-read, and the only place I’ve ever seen the word Tiddler is in a John Steinback book.

1 Like
#71

So nobody likes my name idea then?

#72

I agree; “TidGi” sounds a bit awkward in English. The d-g combination with both letters pronounced separately (d as in “dog”, g as in “go”) is not terribly common; it feels a little more natural with a soft “dg” (as in “edge”), but it’s not a particularly pleasing sound. It doesn’t communicate much, meaning-wise… though the soft dg “tidgy” pronunciation is very close to “titchy” (meaning something small and insignificant).

I think “TidGit” would make the GitHub reference more obvious while also being easier to pronounce…though I’d still be tempted to pronounce it like “tidget”, to rhyme with “widget”. And the “tid” prefix remains largely meaningless to anyone not already familiar with TiddlyWiki.

On the other hand, “TidGit” is most of the way to “tidbit”, which isn’t a bad name in and of itself. For me, it evokes a tasty morsel of food or an interesting bit of trivia, both of which are generally positive… and you can assemble a lot of tidbits into something substantial and perhaps delicious, much as we use tiddlers to create full-featured apps or knowledge bases. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#73

Agreed, I think there’s something to TidBit

1 Like
#74

“Tidbit” is a bit of a diminutive.

There is also a commercial line of foods using the name “Tidbit”, which might cause trademark issues.

1 Like
#75

What I like about it is that it communicates clearly something about the product, namely that we prioritize information to be stored in its smallest bits. I think TidBit would be a fun name for a “lite” version of Tiddlywiki :slight_smile: But I do agree, it’s missing the second half of the philosophy, which is the nonlinear wiki nature of it

1 Like
#76

“TiddlyWiki” is a portmanteau that combines the concepts of “small” and “quick”

Although the term “tiddler” (or “tiddly”) may be a less well known and somewhat diminutive word, it avoids drawing upon unintentional implied meanings that other more recognized words may carry.

As a branding identity, it’s relative obscurity may also be considered an advantage, in that it helps to highlight TiddlyWiki’s uniqueness that differentiates it from the bulk of other “personal information management” applications it may be compared with.

“Tiddler” also lends itself as a good metaphor for the philosophy of TiddlyWiki; specifically, it is a common British term for a small fish (the Three-Spined Stickleback), and embodies the concept of a school of fish, distinct and separate as individuals, but moving in a naturally emergent coordinated manner to produce a beneficial combined and coherent behavior.

The term “wiki” was chosen by Ward Cunningham in 1995 to describe the very first database-driven website intended to evolve through organic, non-linear growth from a minimal framework to a fully realized presentation.

Derived from the Hawaiian word “wiki wiki” meaning “very quick”, it is evocative of the manner in which a TiddlyWiki “document” can be initially created with little to no advanced planning and then refined/refactored later to incorporate a wide range of sophisticated data relationships and interactive workflows.

-e

P.S. for your enjoyment, I offer “Tiddler: The Story Telling Fish”, by Julia Donaldson:

3 Likes
#77

Yup, I understand, and I personally find the name philosophically accurate and even quaint. And have stated, am comfortable with it being a nonissue - - however, I believe that in the context of increasing userbase, it is a bit confounding to continue to advocate for a name when there is wide acceptance that it is, for various reasons, not ideal. :man_shrugging: To each their own, but to write off public opinion as someone else’s problem is a bit counterproductive to the project of “increasing the userbase,” imo.

1 Like
#78

太微 means “very slight”, “infinitesimal” if it is translated literally, and its pronounciation (tài wēi) is similar to TiddlyWiki. This may be similar to @etardiff 's tidbit.

1 Like
#79

I’m using TiddlyWiki because it is useful, and its name is certainly a very secondary factor.

I’m fine with the current name and I don’t mind either if it will be changed, as long as the new name won’t be enforced violently and I can keep using the current name :open_hands:

3 Likes
#80

I think most people, being here, probably feel that way :wink:

#81

I share @oeyoews concerns about the high investment on a pretty niche language when you learn all the bells and whistles of the TW operator/filter language, with low support on your dev environment or even inside TW. For example, in other environments, once you have extended the core language, let’s say, creating a function or a method, you get type completion, tooltip suggestions, keyboard shortcuts and so on. When you create a macro or procedure on TW you don’t get any of this, and I find myself editing my macro tiddlers just to see the source code and remember the parameters of my own defined macros.

I did a more elaborated response on Operators/filters knowledge seems too specific and difficult to recontextualize elsewhere and I even proposed there an imaginary Lua DSL embedded in TW to address the composition of functions, that would work like operators/filters, but it would apply more general programming principles, while still it would keep a compact syntax (of course, with the advantage of moving in the imagination and without dealing with the reality of its implementation).

I use and enjoy TiddlyWiki daily and find it pretty inspiring, even within its constrains and limitations (which are inspiring also). But when I think how to bridge the gap between programmers and non programmers in TW, my mind tends to go into more abstract/architectural concerns to deal with the problems stated above:

  • Could we enable extension languages beyond JS for TW?
  • If yes, how this would change functionality in TW, offering still a gentile learning path between content and functionality creators in the wiki, which is one of the big advantages of TW, but with more general concepts that can be used outside TW and with improved tool support that is usual there?

My path to explore such questions is more related with some alternative explorations, that I hope can come back in some way to TW.

4 Likes
#82

Right. Historically “tid/tbits” were a kind of faut-luxury distributed to the peasant classes.

More recently …

2005
People bring titbits for the cat and he gets so much that it interferes with his mousing. Daily Telegraph 4 January 11/1
— OED

1976
There were enough tidbits of good news last week to soothe the fears of some Ford Administration economists.
Time 27 December
— OED

2014
The news guys wouldn’t be able to resist a juicy titbit like that.
R. Madeley, Way you look Tonight v. 30
— OED

1 Like
#83

V2. Right-ish though …

  • It is also a “juicey morsel”; either a confecture or interesting gossip;
  • It is also “a bit of useful info” (like a ‘tip’ in betting).

FYI, In the UK tiTbit & tiDbit are used interchangeably in different regions.

Notes …

TidBITS has been published weekly since April 16, 1990, making it the longest-running Internet technology publication … https://tidbits.com

Titbits was a salacious weekly periodical in the UK from 1881 to 1984. It pioneered tabloid journalism and “tittle-tattle” magazines.

2 Likes