Let's brainstorm a name for the next version of TiddlyWiki

[Justin_H]

So, is our goal creating just a new title, or a new title and naming scheme for internal elements like “tiddlers”?

Are we looking for something to replace the whole “TiddlyWiki”, or the suffix of “Wiki”, and/or just the prefix of “Tiddly”?

For instance, when I create new Tiddlywiki, I usually use “Tiddly” or “Tiddler” as a prefix for what kind of proj. it is.

For instance, I keep a “TiddlerArchive” of all unused but useful to have tiddlers, stuff like misc. templates, macros, etc.

And my main TiddlyWiki is called a “TiddlerLibrary” where I store all my active and indev projects.

The community does this a good bit too, so picking something that doesn’t really lend itself to that could be a downside, right?

TiddlyWiki.com itself is a Wiki for the software/application called “TiddlyWiki”, so I wasn’t too sure what our aim is as a whole, but I’d like to propose finding a different word to use in place of Tiddly/Tiddler

Side note on the topic of the suffix of wiki, a Wiki is usually defined as a database that is collaboratively worked on, but do we have a word for a database that is only worked on by a indevidual? (Other than, ya know- database…)

[telumire]

The goal is to find a name for an eventual V2 of tiddlywiki, that is a bit less silly while being distinctive, as per the first post of this thread:

@telumire

For context : How to stimulate User Growth of TW? - #56 by jeremyruston

@Mark_S

It’s not quirky. Quirky is fine. It’s a childish turnoff to some 100 to 300 million people who grew up hearing “TiddlyWinky” as a pejorative term used to describe activities that are a waste of time. It’s not something you would want to bring up in a board meeting.

@jeremyruston

I do agree with @Mark_S that the name “TiddlyWiki” does hold us back.

Originally, I only regretted the name because I thought it was a silly joke. But over the years I’ve had consistent feedback that there is a significantly sized cultural group that finds the name at best patronising and at worst obscene. As @Mark_S says, it doesn’t matter many people we can find who like/tolerate the current name; we can’t ignore the consistency of the feedback that it’s a showstopper for a a significant group of people.

My current, loosely held view is that it would take a disproportionate effort to retrospectively change TiddlyWiki’s name, and we’d lose a significant amount of Google-fu. But, if I were ever to move on to a new version that was not intended to be fully backwards compatible then I would be inclined to adopt a new name.

Since the term tiddler come from tiddlywiki, changing the name may imply changing the term used for tiddlers, if appropriate.

[Justin_H]

@telumire

The goal is to find a name for an eventual V2 of tiddlywiki, that is a bit less silly while being distinctive, as per the first post of this thread:
…
Since the term tiddler come from tiddlywiki, changing the name may imply changing the term used for tiddlers, if appropriate.

Thank you for the clarification, I wanted to make sure to stay on track with everybody.

After reading through everything, I’d cast my vote on either calling the app “Tiddler” (and the website Tiddler Wiki) which IMO has a more modern look to it, and is mainly just linked to tiddlywiki and would still work with googles analytics witchcraft (and the tiddlers “Tids”) or just calling the app “TidWiki” and the tiddlers “tids” or “tidbits”, which is pretty appealing too.

Just a sidenote, the acronym aspect of Tids is fun to play with, something like “Tiddler/TidWiki Intelligent Document” works nicely.

Edit: an addendum is that if tiddlers were shortened to tids, the fields would be the tidbits, as they are technically the smallest unit of data, a d tiddlers themselves are field lists, 2nd smallest unit of measurement.

[TartakOO]

@pmario

I think in the German language the word TiddlyWiki also “sounds good” and it’s easy to speak.

It sounds good and unique in french too, at least for me. So, if it’s not really broken, just don’t fix it, and use your spared work to make the product greater instead.

[Alvaro]

You are right. And you are right again. I knew the different pronuntiation of “c” or “z” as “s”, but I didn’t stop to try to know the reason, I think I see it now. They are pretty similar cases (“c/z” as “s”, “d” as “t”, “v” as “b”)

[Jason_Cunliffe]

TIDE

Tiddler
Integrated
Development
Environment

Tiddler
Internet
Design
Enhancement

=> TIDEA. ??

TIDES

Tiddlywiki
Internet
Design
Exploration
System

Transclusionary
Interesting
Design
Expansion
System

[Justin_H]

@well-noted

Tiddlywiki, on the other hand, starts strong, but softens in the middle, giving it a more playful sounds. Lots of words in english, undercut hard sounds by doubling them up and adding ‘ly’, making them sound more playful or childish (diddly, giggly, fiddly, wiggly, squiggly). Also, it sounds quite a reminiscent of “Tiddlywinks” which is a child’s game (and a bit of an archaic one at that).

by this logic Tiddlywiki would need a name that is highly flexible in use and both used modernly and since old ages.

I’d wager something like IronNotes or being that it is based off a small fish, a tiddly, OceanWiki, where every tiddler is a fish?

@Pmario, is there a way to split this into a pre-existing tgread regarding the naming of TiddlyWiki? I’m on mobile and I can’t find the optionoption, I don’t recall if its possible to.

(Nevermind! found the option haha)

[well-noted]

Since @Justin_H quotes me on this, I will note that I have a difficult time conceiving of what a good alternative name would be, possibly because the obvious ones have been taken – Obsidian, Notion, EverNote… any derivation of those, I think, would not do TiddlyWiki justice.

And, as said in the quoted post, I don’t know that I am fully advocating for a name change, however:

In situations like this, I tend to think that it’s best to take a step back and try and change our thinking about things.

The TW cat, I believe, is a very good icon. People like cats, cats are internet, it’s simple, and it has good contrast. IMO, it’s the strongest TW brand-element.

Now, I don’t want us to think along the lines of CatNotes or anything like that. Again, we should be looking for things that combine imagery with the core philosophy – the latter being something to which the TiddlyWiki name was obviously aiming.

I don’t personally have the solution to this, but will say that the cat, as imagery, has special meaning to me because of the phrase “Borders are porous to cats.”

To me, the cat then is very appropriate imagery for TiddlyWIki which, compared to the other tools on the market, is all about breaking down barriers: not only because of it’s open source and highly customizable nature, and because the nonlinear style of notekeeping overcomes the “structural borders” of hierarchical notetaking, but because of its wide international community, and our community-values of mutual aid: supporting each other’s projects, finances, and enthusiasm as possible and appropriate, and prioritizing patience, respect, and understanding.

Without having done a deep-dive in any of the tools of the other communities mentioned, I really believe these are values that set us apart.

[well-noted]

On a bit more reflection, the other thing TiddlyWiki brings to mind are some of the principles outlined in Robert Pirsig’s books (particularly Lila in which he describes a zettelkasten system and goes into great detail about the nonlinear philosophy).

Those might be good places to look as well.

[Springer]

Sorry to reply to two threads… I realize this is the better thread on which to say:

TidWiki

is available as domain name. Lowest possible shiftover cost. Retains associations. Avoids the TiddlyGiggle effect.

It’s earlier in this thread, but I want to bump it for renewed consideration.

At the very least, scooping up the domains (.com and .org) — and putting in for whatever quasi-legal claims can be made — would be prudent … Such step would keep this most obvious option open.

[well-noted]

Unsure about TidWiki, but I am sure that “the TiddlyGiggle effect” should be coined as a @Springer’ism

[gavcloud]

I just have to share a recent anecdote. I was at a party with a fair amount of technically minded people in attendance. Started talking to this chap who was originally from the U.K., going on and on about wiki development … he asks me what I was using. “TiddlyWiki”. He just smiles and says, “Ahhh that’s a great name.” Says he didn’t need to write it down because he wasn’t going to forget it.

I know we like to beat ourselves up over what’s perceived to be an awkward name (especially true in America where I’ve seen plenty of mirth or skepticism directed at the name TiddlyWiki), but maybe we are overthinking it. This was a reminder to me of how cool this piece of software truly is … even its name.

[vuk]

From a purely pragmatic perspective it’s much easier for me to pronounce “tiddlywiki”, than for example “featherwiki”. So if you treat the current name as an impediment in context of wider usage, if you’re considering a rebranding, make sure that then new name is not only cool meaning-wise, but also easy to pronounce by foreigners who don’t speak English natively

[DaveGifford]

Obtidian. That will ruffle a few feathers and bring curious people here!

[TiddlyTitch]

@Offray

The issue with tidbit and renaming tiddler to tid, is that the plural equivalence for tiddlers would be “tids”, which for most Spanish speakers/listeners would sound pretty similar to “tits”

FYI, the OED (canonical English) shows historically that “tidbits” and “titbits” meant the same. The main meaning being a “juicy morsel” (a small, delicous, snack of food).

In the UK, in the past (1886-1984), a common weekly magazine was TitBits / Tit-Bits. It pioneered “tabloid journalism” that led to “Page Three” bosoms.

TT

[TiddlyTitch]

@vuk

make sure that then new name is not only cool meaning-wise, but also easy to pronounce by foreigners who don’t speak English natively

Good point. But …

Wouldn’t we need a phonologist for that? I mean you gals & guys write in English. I have no Idea what your first language is, nor what phonics we may share.

A comment, TT

[Scribs]

is there a new thread for this? i just wanted to post this response to a recent conversation i had on another forum thread about note-taking software. i mentioned TW and it seemed to fit most of the person’s needs.
additionally they were considering creating their own note-taking software from scratch so it seemed they are the perfect target audience for the “TW platform” mentality. then they added this to the end of their message…

i explained to them the reasoning but i don’t think they will be looking further into TW.

i know us in this forum are used to all the lingo and don’t really think about it anymore, but i think this is a big problem and shouldn’t be understated / overlooked if we want to continue getting new users.

[well-noted]

Eagle-Rock-Knife-Fire is still available as a name

[TiddlyTitch]

Of course it is. It is loooooong.

Get real ALREADY.

[Ste_W]

I think we should take our queues off of the existing multi wiki solution Bob and go for something like Rita or Sue

</obscure 80s film reference>