Philosophical question about portrait vs landscape

#1

Hi everyone, here is a question for reflection:

Set up for the question: Obviously, laptops and desktops have a horizontal, landscape orientation, while phones and all but the largest mobile devices are thought of as vertical and portrait orientation. Anyone who has had to create a UI that works both for computer and mobile devices must find this a headache.

What I am pondering is, why has no one tried to get these two experiences to line up? Why are there no vertically oriented screens for laptops and desktops? I am imagining something as wide as a laptop, but 1.5x - 2x as tall? Maybe they could fold in half for transporting the laptop. Or maybe it would a laptop screen that rotates like a pinwheel on a stick behind it. Or a thin screen that rolls open to whatever height you like, similar to a pull down movie screen in an old classroom. I don’t know.

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of portrait orientation desktops and laptops, thinking generally, but also of TiddlyWiki specifically?

Some initial thoughts:

  • I would think that outliners like Dynalist and Streams would definitely benefit from a vertical orientation.
  • I would think that reading services like Scribd and Kindle and would benefit, too. One could get more text on the screen for context’s sake. Scribd feels terribly cramped on my decent sized laptop screen.
  • Programs that are topbar heavy (Word, Google docs, etc) would feel less cramped.
  • Setting width=“100%” for images would not be an issue anymore for either vertical or horizontal images as it is now.
  • Editing tiddlers wouldn’t feel as cramped.
  • Story river would feel more like a river than a puddle.
  • Cons might be: extra cost if screen is taller, more likeliness of breaking the screen, more clunky or heavy to transport.
  • I did find this: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-no-laptops-with-vertical-screens

(Maybe we already have this. I haven’t tested out the fancy laptops with swiveling screens. I thought they only offered face-forward and face-backward, not vertical vs horizontal options. Or maybe someone out there offers them as alternatives for desktops. I did see an IPS strip on Google that goes either way)

Anyway, I would love to hear your reflections on this. Blessings.

TiddlyWiki on VR headsets
#2

I worked doing payroll for awhile with two widescreens displays in a cubicle, one horizontal and one vertical screen, people were a little weirded out by seeing a vertical screen, so it really isn’t mainstream. It’s basically like having a 27 inch display as you finally get to have enough height to see entire webpages without having to scroll. Ergonomics are also improved too. The only issue when you using a widescreen display in portrait orientation is it is too narrow for spreadsheets with a lot of columns, something that can be fixed if spreadsheets were designed more intelligently. :thinking:

The issue I’ve run into more is pixel density in TiddlyWikis with images. The higher pixel density allows for more content since the size of the individual pixels are physically smaller. This of course has a effect on my setup above, since I was using two rather low end widescreen displays, so this also has an effect when you’re using a display in portrait mode with documents that are designed for landscape displays.

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#3

There are monitors you can put into portrait mode. I have owned a Chromebook laptop by Asus that has a swivel or even detachable screen that does portrait orientation.

Ultimately — laptops and everything that isn’t a mobile device are professional devices sold to a dwindling audience of professional desktop operating system users. Who can afford expensive second or third or fourth monitors.

The portrait orientation of mobile should be thought of as “standard” for mass marketing computing users.

The nascent VR/AR interfaces will bring us back to portrait but won’t gain ascendancy for a decade or longer.

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#4

I recently aquired a new monitor to use with my mini desktop that is UHD 28" with pivot. I am yet to work though the advantages of portrait but the key is the digital photo editing of portrait images or display. I needed a powerful computer and a good monitor and an intel NUC costs less than a midrange laptop.

Design, coding and many other more intence functions are not so good on small and or touch screens and a keyboard and mouse much better.

Most devices alow you to switch from landscape to portrait in software the issue seems to be can you orient the hardware to match. Wall mounts or custom stands could make any monitor switch orientation.

I have some mild eyesight issues but since I have large screens landscape allows me to position tools along side portrait work. So for now other than portrait image display and edit I am yet to identify the full value.

I will return after more experiments.

#5

@DaveGifford, I think the replies so far indicate that actually lots of monitors for Desktop PC’s, Tablet PC’s & Chromebooks natively support auto-rotation between portrait & landscape. Many have done so for a long time.

Just FYI all three of my monitors on PC can “pivot” between orientations. I bought these 10 years ago.

Philosophically I’d say that, in my use case, (on Desktop) portrait is (1) good for editing some many types of long texts; (2) good for compact presentation for control of overview pages / TW.

An emerging trend is towards “liberated orientation” where the monitor is non-proportioned to any specific input aspect ratio. Rather the “view space” becomes a “virtual screen” within a larger physical screen that can display many “screens”. This is becoming more apparent in large “table-top” screens.

Just a comment, TT.

giant-tablet-1

#6

Right. And right on the implication that when you go portrait on a Desktop sometimes issues arise over “where are my sidebar tools now? This is a mess!” This is often legacy UI issues. Massive smart-phone use has, to an extent, improved the situation, but not optimally in that the small size factor of smart-phones often necessarily removes function.

Regarding obvious DT portrait use, well, it’s brilliant for Portrait Photographers! :smiley:

Just a comment
TT

#7

Since we’re philosophical about it…

I believe at least one reason to “why landscape” is because our eyes are placed horizontally. We are more used to gaze, and turn our heads, sideways than vertically and the eyes themselves are longer in the horizontal axis than the vertical one. Actually, the depth perception which gives us our 3D vision of things requires that they eyes can gaze from two different directions so we (probably) have a poorer 3D image vertically than horizontally. For full 3D vision we should probably have 3 eyes, in a triang.e formation. Not that this directly has to do with screens, but I believe our two “horizontal” eyes at least give us a “biological tendency” to prefer landscape rather than portrait…

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#8

True, but only if your only frame of reference is living (evolving) at the bottom of a gravity well. Otherwise, “horizontal” either has no meaning or it’s whatever you choose it to be.

#9

Dear Santa, :nerd_face:

I hope the anti-glare is working – “Turn off that damned light!”

#10

Few of us have evolved floating in space, but you’re right we shouldn’t discriminate. We also need a Z-directed screen.

#11

I don’t know if you are right. I’d need see some research by a specialist optician :slight_smile:

True. But a computer screen is not the depth-world of ordinary vision. Nor is it just accepted–by which I mean “intention of use” intervenes to complicate the issue. For instance, editing a long text, the reduced line-length in portrait (with less immediate sidebar-isms) could be an “ocular orientation advantage”??

I’m sure someone has done research on all this??

Just a thought.

TT

#12

Dear Wish-Writer :joy:. Lol! It is true. But, just FYI these “table-top” monitors cost less than a high end monitor for colour correcting. It is rarely noticed that colour on the internet is terrible and terribly inconsistent. If you edit images you took yourself getting them to resemble online what you took is a nightmare of super-expensive tools. This is OT. So 'nuff said.

TT, x

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#13

It’s the latter mostly, “chosen” by the viewer, i.e. the owner of the pair of eyes in @twMat’s post.

We’ve all seen footage from the ISS. Picture two astronauts “floating” (bad word) on the ISS, holding handheld devices in their hands in landscape position.

One astronaut, from the camera’s (our) perspective, is “rotated” 45 degrees ( almost 2 o’clock-ish) the other astronaut is rotated by 135 degrees – almost “upside down” from our (the camera’s) point of view.

Each astronaut is holding his device “horizontally” in/on the same plane as his eyes. But from where you and I are sitting, neither of them are using our version of “horizontal”, they’re choosing their own horizontal.

Yeah. OT, if not OTT. :wink:

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#14

Actually, not OT. @DaveGifford asked us twice to reflect in his OP. We’re reflecting.

Oh dear, mirrors – another fun topic and the cause of many a long debate, but I’ll resist/desist. :nerd_face:

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#15

I believe this whole issue will be nullified when we enter the Metaverse and especially in combination with Neuralink…

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#16

Are you heading for a report like a futuristic Minority Report?

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istock-9136419321303Ă—805 200 KB

Just a comment
TT

#17

I haven’t.

I’ve have seen a fat man having problems with the ISS …

I look forward to your phone enumeration video.

Love, TT

#18

Back to the OP …

They have. I hope that is clearer now?

There is an intrinsic issue in that the “forms of final media delivery” differ between platforms. But a desktop (landscape) UI and a phone (portrait) UI can have a singular relationship. That is about relative SIZING, not just orientation. And, in addition, though the variability of solutions differs between them, currently, there is a common consensus which is “what works on mobile?” works universally.

Just a comment, TT

#19

I don’t think that is the case. (Mostly) Desktop monitors are not limited to landscape. And Mobiles are not limited to portrait (ever).

Ita est :smiley:, TT

#20

A big thanks to everyone! I learnt me some thingies.

I don’t think the average computer user will have thought about this question or will have been exposed to the options you mention.

I just took the base off my 19" monitor, tilted it sideways, and adjusted the screen orientation for it, just as an experiment. I can already see that it will be great for reading, not so great for Word (which I hardly ever use). I am on the fence about whether I like it for Dynalist and TiddlyWiki. I think I would need to modify a custom UI for TiddlyWiki for the sidebar - move things to a top bar, or have a sidebar that overlays the story river rather than appearing at the top.

Feel free to keep philosophizing, including tangents. This is not a problem-solving thread, so stream of conscious thinking somewhat roughly in the area of the original question is welcome.

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