Mixed thoughts on how to improve stuff for new users

[TwN00b]

Hi @Scott_Sauyet ,

Thanks for taking the time - and yes - I would welcome helping in any way.

• Please note - I might not get the verbiage correct - but will try
• Also, feel free to correct anything/everything - as I understand most of this is still in flux

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@Scott_Sauyet

You have a list of “newbie” questions, but it’s likely a very different list from those of other newbies. So if we have a large list of such Q & A’s, how do we organize it?

Types of “general” newbies:

• I am not sure if I am any different from the newbie’s - as most folks - when learning something tend to have basic questions
  • Mainly - can I get workable examples on A, B, C,…

1. There are folks (like me) that are consumers - and have (in all honesty) no desire to become developers - none, nada, zip, zilch
   • I own so many software applications - that I’ve used throughout the years - that just don’t do what I can do with TiddlyWiki
   • I am willing to pay for ‘good’ software - so long as I can benefit from it - but I will always look for the open-source alternatives - since those (IMHO) tend to get made better - faster - ,…
   • Obsidian, OneNote, GoodNotes, OpusDomini, etc. all had their use - that I was able to replace with TiddkyWiki ← It’s True!
2. There are consumers that “might” become developers - and they will be more into the nut’s and bolts of TiddlyWiki
   • They will learn and run with TiddlyWiki - including participating and pushing feedback +,…
3. There are developer-types - that love to tinker - and they will most likely use TiddlyWiki differently
   • Insert Technical Jargon here
4. There are hard-core Dev’s serious about extending and creating App’s using TiddlyWiki - they also think different from me
   • At this point - I nod off to sleep

• There are others - but the above groups (IMHO) are the main ones

Organizing:

• Also, for organizing - this is a complex subject - as we don’t know the who will visiting - or what the skill level will be

  • Simple examples - how to “do” something - with examples - simple
  • Take a simple example - and expand it - more complex -
  • Take a complex example - and use magic to showcase the power of TiddlyWiki (FYI: I won’t be reading this part of the examples)

• We can have various sections - some examples:

  • Casual Users - just interested in the application usage - how to create a tiddler -
    • Create an Address Book, Todo List, Manage a Project, Calendar Entries
    • Create a cookbook, a Journal notes area, etc.
    • Think of the Franklin Day Planner – people understand that concept - and no - I am not referring to Getting Things Done ← yuck
  • Users interested in just a little more - than a casual user
    • Creating a basic TiddlyWiki Application - nothing to fancy - but has “stuff” - from above
  • Developer Types -
    • Creating a TiddlyWiki Application
      • Like your Bible - that’s awesome! ← I just have no idea how it works - I don’t understand the code
      • Projectify - a decent replacement for the Franklin Day Planner System
      • Plugins, (insert technical stuff here - things I don’t know)
  • Developers - Advanced
    • Insert Magic Gobbledygook and technical jargon here

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@Scott_Sauyet

more would always be helpful, though.

Yes, more examples - always more examples - Please - and we can make them: (more is always better - we learn by doing)

• Complete - so that we can copy and paste them into a tiddler - and they “just work”
• A subsequent section - making them more complex - based on the type and interest of the user

@Scott_Sauyet

Any specific examples?

Sure:

• What is a: https://tiddlywiki.com/static/Railroad%2520Plugin.html ?
  • I see the page - but it’s technical - yet - it’s referenced in a lot of docs
  • The verbiage is a bit much (for me) - as well as the examples -
    
    
  • I understand that this is supposed to add a suffix of “y” to “x” - - - but “how”?
  • The examples don’t really show how to do this
  • And nope - nothing I could use,.. - sorry - true - so I went to Google,… and Reddit
• I have other questions I posted - but I think the above should help

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@Scott_Sauyet

And as to findability of the links site or the forum, how would you want to make that more prominent than being in the first menu on the top of the TW page? This is not a rhetorical question; really, how would you think these can be made easier to find? And as for TiddlyHost, there are three tiddlers open when you load the main page – and they’re also visible in the default tab in the sidebar menu: HelloThere, GettingStarted, and Community. The second one starts by discussing TiddlyHost.

• This one is a bit harder
  • The first Tiddler is busy, noisy and uses to much color - - to be honest - it “shouts” at me - - It can be just me - but I get information overload when i go to the main site
  • The first thing I do is “close” all the Tiddlers - - and breathe a sigh of relief - noise gone
• To be honest - I did not know that “talk.tiddkywiki.com” was listed three times - since I quickly close the tiddlers
  • To be fair - any site that yells at me - I will avoid - and only go to “if” I “REALLY” need to go there,… - it might just be me though
  • IT’S SORT OF LIKE: TYPING IN ALL-CAPS <— sorry - just trying to make a point
• To make this better - Can we “ease” folks into the site?
  • Maybe something that is “softer” - less packed?
  • it’s OK if it’s a long main page - where we need to scroll downwards
  • Also, it’s better if we split the single multi-combined page to different pages
• A page for newbies - like:
  • “New Users: New To TiddlyWiki?” - something that allows new users to open a page to another “site” or section or - whatever
  • This allows folks to see the “Good” in TiddlyWiki - with jump pages to tiddlers, examples, how-to’s and links to the Support groups, Example Sites, etc.
• Examples:
  • Can we add in the “talk.tiddlywiki.com” posts - inside the “search” bar on the main TiddlyWiki site?
  • This would help with searches - (I hope)

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@Scott_Sauyet

Now that you have at least some sense of how these work, would you be willing to write some documentation on them targeted at new users? It doesn’t have to be perfect; I’m sure some more experienced users would be more than willing to polish it up.

Yes - sign-me up. Just tell me where to put the examples - and I can use the examples I use - and why I needed to use them.

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@Scott_Sauyet

Do you think that this forum is not appropriate for that? I think there are numerous users here more than willing to respond to newbie questions; many seem to enjoy not only helping out but also teaching as they do so.

Well - the site works - and yeah - I can ask - but at times - when I read some of the responses,… (If I am allowed some honesty)

• The main issue is that new folks - (like me) for the most part - don’t understand the correct verbiage (it’s true)
  • Transclusion is a mystery (just trying to show content)
  • Performance: Data Tiddlers - aka Dictionaries - 4000 Tiddlers with 100 Fields each
  • Stuck: Show a Field from a Transcluded tiddler via variable from another Tiddler

I get that new folks don’t know “where” to post - or “what” section to post under - or “how” to post - or even “why” we should NOT post - ,…

Due to the complex nature of TiddlyWiki and the advanced levels - of the users - on this forum - I’ve not posted 32 items - - - yes - I save my questions - in case I need to refer to them in the future - and for those - I’ve gone to Google/Reddit/etc. to get the answers - and not here.

I now spend at least 1/2 a day doing web searches - to see if I can get an answer - before I even consider posting here - and when I do - I do try to use the correct words. However, I am not a developer - but folks seem to think I am “writing an application” - - I am not - I am just creating my own personal bible study - using dictionaries.

I would rather work on building folks up - and helping tech progress - since the world is complicated enough.

Let me know if you need more examples - I can provide them - and yeah - I am happy to help.

Thanks for your reply,

TwN00b