Why is TiddlyWiki Beaten by Obsidian?

[Offray]

I share @oeyoews concerns about the high investment on a pretty niche language when you learn all the bells and whistles of the TW operator/filter language, with low support on your dev environment or even inside TW. For example, in other environments, once you have extended the core language, let’s say, creating a function or a method, you get type completion, tooltip suggestions, keyboard shortcuts and so on. When you create a macro or procedure on TW you don’t get any of this, and I find myself editing my macro tiddlers just to see the source code and remember the parameters of my own defined macros.

I did a more elaborated response on Operators/filters knowledge seems too specific and difficult to recontextualize elsewhere and I even proposed there an imaginary Lua DSL embedded in TW to address the composition of functions, that would work like operators/filters, but it would apply more general programming principles, while still it would keep a compact syntax (of course, with the advantage of moving in the imagination and without dealing with the reality of its implementation).

I use and enjoy TiddlyWiki daily and find it pretty inspiring, even within its constrains and limitations (which are inspiring also). But when I think how to bridge the gap between programmers and non programmers in TW, my mind tends to go into more abstract/architectural concerns to deal with the problems stated above:

• Could we enable extension languages beyond JS for TW?
• If yes, how this would change functionality in TW, offering still a gentile learning path between content and functionality creators in the wiki, which is one of the big advantages of TW, but with more general concepts that can be used outside TW and with improved tool support that is usual there?

My path to explore such questions is more related with some alternative explorations, that I hope can come back in some way to TW.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@Mark_S

“Tidbit” is a bit of a diminutive.

Right. Historically “tid/tbits” were a kind of faut-luxury distributed to the peasant classes.

More recently …

2005
People bring titbits for the cat and he gets so much that it interferes with his mousing. Daily Telegraph 4 January 11/1
— OED

1976
There were enough tidbits of good news last week to soothe the fears of some Ford Administration economists.
Time 27 December
— OED

2014
The news guys wouldn’t be able to resist a juicy titbit like that.
R. Madeley, Way you look Tonight v. 30
— OED

[TiddlyTweeter]

@Mark_S

“Tidbit” is a bit of a diminutive.

V2. Right-ish though …

• It is also a “juicey morsel”; either a confecture or interesting gossip;
• It is also “a bit of useful info” (like a ‘tip’ in betting).

---

FYI, In the UK tiTbit & tiDbit are used interchangeably in different regions.

---

Notes …

TidBITS has been published weekly since April 16, 1990, making it the longest-running Internet technology publication … https://tidbits.com

Titbits was a salacious weekly periodical in the UK from 1881 to 1984. It pioneered tabloid journalism and “tittle-tattle” magazines.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@EricShulman

“Tiddler” also lends itself as a good metaphor for the philosophy of TiddlyWiki; specifically, it is a common British term for a small fish (the Three-Spined Stickleback), and embodies the concept of a school of fish, distinct and separate as individuals, but moving in a naturally emergent coordinated manner to produce a beneficial combined and coherent behavior.

Very accurate.

I am one of the British (few?) who delighted in their childhood in dangling their feet in the River Soar and paddling the Grand Union Canal—that swarms with Tiddlers. Most folk are not so lucky to have ducks, water and Tiddlers as their greatest friends.

FYI, a mature Stickleback is much bigger than a Tiddler. A Tiddler is any very small fish that (a) lives in a swarm [aka a “volatile shoal” in fish-ese]; (b) is not afraid of a human; (c) will happily nibble your feet.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@EricShulman

As a branding identity, it’s relative obscurity may also be considered an advantage, in that it helps to highlight TiddlyWiki’s uniqueness that differentiates it from the bulk of other “personal information management” applications

A vero.

Obscure … Branding … Advantage … Uniqueness … Differentiating.

Si, si

Ma (but), my only qualm is a minor twinge on TIDDLY …

– Tiddly Size is good …

... so long as she has ...

– Monster Muscles

QED

[TiddlyTweeter]

@EricShulman

“wiki” was chosen by Ward Cunningham in 1995 to describe the very first database-driven website intended to evolve through organic, non-linear growth

Right. It all happened 10 years after I needed it.

Back in the day I was fighting for (as an anthropologist with massive descriptive data) text-bases not data-bases.

It all came out okay.

But I’m still a bit non-plussed whether, now, “wiki” means anything other than “web-page”? Well, WikiPedia, I guess, since it is a system. But most other “wikis” … ??

My question is … is TW really …

  A -- A Cunningham Wiki

… or …

  B -- A Ruston Module

It seems to me that JR has outdone Cunningham by eating the internet into one pod.

Asking for a f(r)iend
TT

[Ste_W]

A Ruston Module.

Definitely.

I like that. I think you have coined a term.

[Springer]

Hey folks, Not the first time being suggested but:

TidWiki

is a variant we should collectively (or @jeremyruston as inventor) should claim, copyright, and allow as acceptable shorthand if possible. It seems to be available as a domain name, if .com or .org were added.

It’s clearly not appropriate to allow any other solution to claim or copyright that string, or to claim such a website. And it takes zero learning curve to connect with TiddlyWiki (TWiki might have been similar, but has been claimed.)

TidWiki doesn’t sound silly or hard to get one’s mouth around, and it gets us the tiddler connection with no fuss…

[pmario]

@Springer

TidWiki doesn’t sound silly or hard to get one’s mouth around, and it gets us the tiddler connection with no fuss…

hmmm, TidWiki and Tiddler will be as hard to explain as TiddlyWiki and Tiddler. So for me there is no difference other than causing a lot of work and problems.

[Springer]

Sure, the explanations for newbies are needed. I’m not sure there’s any metaphor (short of “card” for old fogeys who remember HyperCard) that would bypass the need for explaining the atomic units of TiddlyWiki…

Whatever the metaphor (atom, bit, card, record, tiddler, facet, gene, node, cell… ), the power of these units in TiddlyWiki — and how their transclusions create a kaleidoscope of options — will always need to be modeled and witnessed to be appreciated.

My thought is just that transitioning to a shorter name — as in from “Federal Express” to FedEx — is as seamless as a nickname gaining popularity, doesn’t even ever have to be official to be useful.

It’s the one place where it seems to me that it couldn’t be a mistake to plant a flag …

[well-noted]

@pmario

TidWiki and Tiddler will be as hard to explain as TiddlyWiki and Tiddler.

I think it does avoid the “TiddlyGiggly” problem (as coined by @Springer )

However, @pmario, I agree that it’s not enough of a difference to justify the time/work/confusion.

[Brian_Radspinner]

I often think “tid” instead of tiddler.

I like the idea of working in a “wikitids” file, that allows for quickly making use of small bits of information.

Wikitids notes
Wikitids notebook/journal
Wikitids platform

[TW_Tones]

I have seen this naming debate occur many times over the years, my personal conclusion is;

• TiddlyWiki is a unique name that has a substantial history, lots of search juice and whist abstract (very importiant) also makes people ask what it is.
• It is trivial to rebrand your wiki to any name you want, the underlying platform is of course tiddlywiki.
• The potentialy trivial sounding name is quickly eliminated if you refer to “The TiddlyWiki Platfom” and implies the multitude of functions, features and posibilities.

The “TiddlyWiki Platform”

• In some ways none of have the right to name tiddlywiki something else and continue to be refering to the original tiddlywiki, any alternate name comes loaded with the different perspectives of those creating the name.
• Thus using a second word to qualify what it is, does not compromise it’s originality but allows you to change the emphasis.

Call it “TiddlyWiki Obsidian” or “TiddlyWiki Amethyst” if you want to and can avoid litigation.

• TiddlyWiki Platform - volcanic rock

Or use an alternate catch Phrase (subtitle) to that on tiddlywiki.com “TiddlyWiki a non-linear personal web notebook” eg; “TiddlyWiki a personal database app/website”

[EricShulman]

Slogans (aka, “catch phrases”) can go a long way towards setting a particular marketing “vibe” without having to change the TiddlyWiki name.

Here’s my trademarked slogans for TiddlyTools:

• “Small Tools for Big Ideas!” ™
• “Intuitive Interfaces for Intelligent Interactions” ™

and some suggestions for TiddlyWiki itself:

• “The Personal Portable Programmable Platform for People”
• “Own it like a document… use it like a website!”
• “Your plastic pal who’s Fun to be with. Share and Enjoy!”

Actually, that last one is how the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines “robot”:

Marvin the Robot Your Plastic Pal Who's FUN To Be With

[Justin_H]

@EricShulman

“Own it like a document… use it like a website!”

I can’t lie, I do enjoy the sound of this one.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@Brian_Radspinner

I often think “tid” instead of tiddler.

Right. I’m sure many do.
But likely it is a mental contraction of “Tiddler” or “Tiddly”??

So, I doubt the long-form of “Tiddler” needs avoidance.
Rather it needs be there as the “referant” for the “short-form”.

Linguistic note, TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

@well-noted

I can … say confidently, from … experience, that it’s a very silly sounding name to most Americans.

While … there are other words that have some of the silly characteristics … described, none of them have all of the silly characteristics about ‘Tiddlywiki’ particularly.

(my emphasis)

Simple question.

IF that were right, given TW’s history already, is it too late (anyway) to change?

Best, TT.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@Springer

just that transitioning to a shorter name — as in from “Federal Express” to FedEx — is as seamless as a nickname gaining popularity, doesn’t even ever have to be official to be useful

Right. This, socio-linguistically, is true. I’d say “Fedex” knowing it is “Federal Express”—as many (most) would.

Note, however, an international English using a pre-exisiting vocabulary where “Fed”, “The Feds”, “The FBI” etc. were known and used and know their referant is “Federal”.
“FedEx” is deep in that cultural usage context.

You get the idea?

Would that ever apply to “Tid” etc. ??

Show me how.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

@Springer

TidWiki doesn’t sound silly or hard to get one’s mouth around, and it gets us the tiddler connection with no fuss…

@pmario

hmmm, TidWiki and Tiddler will be as hard to explain as TiddlyWiki and Tiddler. So for me there is no difference other than causing a lot of work and problems

Right.

Several of us oldboys/girlspeople have been round the swings and roundabouts of “The Name” a bunch (a lot) of times already.

In the past I was more “change it”. As years go by far less so.
History, rightly, creates healthy inertia.

@pmario I feel makes the simplest vital question, being (my interpretation) …

Given the context now. Years after invention. WHY attempt change a name that would, likely, very likely, be difficult, work intensive and create legacy issues, to acheive?

TT

[strivenword]

I think there’s obviously a pretty big circle of overlapping use cases for Obsidian and TiddlyWiki, but they are considerably different, I think even more different than Google Maps to OpenStreetMap. They’re not even the same kind of thing, they can just be used for some of the same kinds of purposes.

I guess that Obsidian became popular quickly for similar reasons to those explaining why Python became popular across disciplines – because people who are code literate but not super technical liked it. (Then because Python became popular among slightly technical academic users etc., it became increasingly used by actual developers for more lower level purposes.)

It’s fun and easy for someone who likes to write in plain text in text editors to keep notes in markdown – a more-or-less common sense and universal standard for slightly computer savvy people who dislike GUIs. TiddlyWiki is not only more technically complicated to use at a fairly deep level, but it’s also less text native. The typical use of TiddlyWiki is to click things in its browser GUI, even though the wikitext aspect is WYSIWYM (to use the terminology in //Grok TiddlyWiki//). To use TiddlyWiki in a more text-native and filestystem-native workflow requires also using NodeJS, which requires more technical expertise and effort to set up. So if you’re not a programmer but you like working in plain text and feeling superior to people who take notes in Microsoft Office software, Obsidian is more gratifying.

But TiddlyWiki is a fully featured and fundamentally unified hypertext system, encapsulating the design structures informing browsers and the web and a deeper level of implementation. So TiddlyWiki is way better at designing systems for cross-referencing content.