What's the standard way to not writing Title

#42

@jeremyruston From my point of view “caption” is the wrong field to show. As captions used at the moment they are short. Titles are not.

In the TOC-rewrite which is described at: TOC-macros Rewritten (+ a lot of new fuctionality) - Part 2 I did allow the TOC macros to select a captionField which should be used instead of caption.

If captionField does not exist or is empty, it falls back to “caption” and to “title” if needed

In my own wikis I do use a field named: subtitle that can be shown as a title in a ViewTemplate.

My uni-link plugin allows link shortcuts that show caption, subtitle or any other field-name alongside case insensitive aliases to be shown in pretty-links.

So showing caption as the only alternative title in a core view template is not generic enough. It’s specific to linonetwo’s usecase.

4 Likes
#43

Another usecase friends, is decide the field to search.

If it is a title-less-tiddler, then search programs like command palette (I’m building a new one!) shouldn’t search in the title field, otherwise it is only work against a meanless hash, and return lots of false positive results.

As a product designer, I don’t want plugin user to fill a config like “prefix to ignore” or “if it has this field then ignore title”, so I will need a standard for this.

#44
  • If it is title-less-tiddler:
    • only show sub-title
  • else
    • show title and sub-title sideby side

So a field or prefix to know it is title-less is still worthy.

But for people who like subtitle or alias, I agree _prefer_caption might not be a good field name. How about _hash_title.

#45

The easiest way is to prefix the title with $:/ putting it away from the standard search unless you use is[system] I have however come up with other ways such as using Unicode for the title, or creating new system namespaces.

  • With Streams I get the title to be behind a prefix eg $:/streams/numeric title
  • I can to this my modifying my alt-title solution very easily.
#46

But some title-less tiddler are just userside tiddler, they are generated by quick-add plugins, so they have random hash title, but they are really normal user tiddlers. And [all[tiddlers]] should include them.

And I will create more quick-add plugins in the future, because I find they are handy for mobile use.

#47

IMO _prefer_field: caption would do. So users can change it to _prefer_field: something

We only need to define the “fallback mechanism” eg:

  1. If _prefer_field is set to caption but
    1.1 caption does not exist → use tittle instead … Which would contradict the OP
    1.2 caption exists but is empty → use title
  2. if _prefer_field is set to myField but
    2.1 myField does not exist → go on with 1.1 and 1.2 if needed
    2.2 myField exists but is empty → go on with 1.1 and 1.2 if needed

So the problem I have with _prefer_?? is, that I do expect a sensible fallback.

IMO the OP wants to _demand_field or _apply_field where we do not allow a fallback. Other verbs may be: 248 Synonyms & Antonyms for FORCE | Thesaurus.com

So if:

  1. _demand_field is set to caption
    3.1 caption does not exist or is empty, we show nothing.

That’s the way I would understand it.

1 Like
#48

I don’t quite follow what you mean here, sorry.

I will use this, hope community will follow.

From next month, command palette will not search for title, if the tiddler has the field _prefer_field.
Calendar will not show title, if so.

I will find a chance to PR it into the core, add this field to some tiddler, to consolidate the interoperability.

1 Like
#49

Go ahead and put your argument, but with all due respect I think it in unnecessary, and complicated and I would not myself like such changes.

  • I can solve your problems raised with the current core, and you can introduce your change to your wikis and not touch the core.
#50

It is not about my wiki, it is about the plugin developer’s consensus and plugin community’s interoperability.

See Suggestion for all Plugin developers about field name: Let’s use Ontology to maintain Interoperability

Tiddlywik is not only a note book, it is an application develop framework, that works simillar to a local version of https://solidproject.org/

Idea - Turn TiddlyWiki into modern HyperCard?
#51

Another way to handle interoperability is to provide configuration settings in each plugin. For example allow the installer of a pluggin to configure the tag and field names used by the plugin.

This would allow one plugin to be varied to accommodate another.

We could provide some code patterns even automation to help plugin and solution designers do this quickly and easily.

#52

I think 1 more config, there will be 1% more new user lost. New user don’t like config things. A good product should work out of box like Notion. This is why Notion comes late, but have a much larger user group.

#53

Here’s my thoughts on this.

  • Autogenerated titles should have a standard ontology (way to name things)
  • A standard method of displaying emphasizing an alternate field in the “title-area of the tiddler-card”, while deemphasizing the literal title field (it should still appear as a popup, or ?)
  • System Tiddlers are defined as those that match the following prefix $:/. This encapsulates a few concepts that we can re-use. There is a “drive/volume” portion $: and a PathSeperator /. We should re-use these concepts.
  • Streams plugin uses this , i.e. if you start a stream of notes from the Streams tiddler, they come out as Streams/20240609224322659, Streams/20240609224322659/20240609224406918, etc, etc.
  • If you need to declare a “Namespace”, then use the “Drive/Volume” pattern.
    • Example: All charactersheet data for Characters in the Synthetic Dream Machine Role Playing Game System could be held at SDM:/characters/<<GUID>>, and the character name could be held in caption or subtitle, or petname, or ??, etc.
#54

A post was split to a new topic: How to automatically name ChatGPT and Gemini conversations

#55

Hi @joshuafontany you are late! People above was discouraging the use of prefix in title, but rather use a field _prefer_field for this.

I think if you want to reference the tiddler generator that generate the random-title-tiddler, you can add field source: Synthetic Dream Machine.

But adding this kind of a cascaded-title-view-template to the core is a good way to let us “have a standard ontology”, I will do this when this RFC is really sattle down.

#56

Hmm. Completely machine-generated UUIDs, etc, as Titles means that we lose the “human readable” portion of the title field. I honestly think that many tiddlers should actually NOT be expected to be rendered directly in the story river, but rather transcluded into another “main” Story River Tiddler. BUT, we do use title as one of the main fields for search result lists, etc. We wouldn’t want to completely fill those lists with “hard to parse alpha-numeric strings”.

2 Likes
#57

I second this statement. I also think tiddler titles should be human readable, because TWs main UI is created for humans.

If we need a machine readable ID it can be a field.

I think the _prefer_field field is be an option I can live with. If it is there and ignored, we are good. If it is used in story-river templates – it’s good too, if there is a fallback to the title

2 Likes
#58

I don’t agree, your config can work out of the box and the ability to reconfigure it is so you can deal with edge cases or integrate with other plugins.

Keep in mind I am talking about providing a de facto standard for config settings designed to operate across solutions and pluggins rather than embedding it in the core.

I am relying here on a sophisticated understanding of the common factors and an evolutionary design approach to assist interoperability. I think this is within reach and would provide what you are looking for without reducing future choice but expanding it.

#59

The title is the unique key to the data that is a tiddler. Either they are human readable or hidden from view and accessed via smart tiddlers that know how to handle the auto-generated titles.

  • Placing they unique key at eye level is part of tiddlywinks genius.
  • There are plenty of alternatives when this is not optimal without any core change.
#60

What if it were _use_caption: fieldname for still more flexibility?

#61

Extending your idea @Scott_Sauyet the caption as a rule is transcluded, meaning it is wikified. Thus the content, can in effect be a redirect {{!!fieldname}}, a macro or function.

@jeremyruston Rather than a field=yes to display caption we can introduce a more general solution such as "display-title’ which is evaluated if it exists and replaces the title. It can have a value, wiki text, function etc… including to say use the caption field.

I have a preference to set such things programmatically, not by an on tiddler setting. For example testing a field such as object-type which then determines if an alternate title is displayed. In some cases the “type” field is sufficient.

  • It seems to me we could introduce a defacto “logical tiddler type” field that more users and designers would use it to treat subsets of tiddlers differently programmatically.