What does the term "wiki" mean to "TiddlyWiki"?

#1

I have been looking through the TiddlyWiki Examples page, and I can’t find anything there that immediately speaks to me of a “wiki” in the traditional sense of the word.

Most definitions of the term “wiki” online tend to include the phrases “…collaborative platform…”, “…collaboratively edit…”, “…anyone who is reading the site can also edit it…”, “…easily edited by any user…”, etc.

Conversely, TiddlyWiki defines itself as “…a non-linear personal web notebook…” which is very different to a “wiki”, and doesn’t lend itself easily to any sort of collaboration. Why is the word “wiki” even used in the name TiddlyWiki at all? It is quite clear that TiddlyWiki was originally intended to be edited only by a single user, and all attempts since then to make it a more collaborative effort seem to be an afterthought.

#2

I am not exaggerating when I say TiddlyWiki is one of the most flexible solutions that exist. Assume it can be done, rather than what It cannot do.

Perhaps the key similarity to wikis is the way content in one place can be linked, even automatically to content in another place.

You can let anyone edit tiddlers if you use a server version such as bob but if you look closely at Wikipedia/Wikimedia you will see although they are designed for anyone to edit, they must get a user id/set a password, and they can still control what changes you make and reverse them if inappropriate.

  • There are ways to implement this in tiddlywiki especially on node.

Another way to look at single file tiddlywiki’s is they still can be collaborative but the editors can be serial editors, first me, then you …

However another feature of a wiki is the content is made available for everyone, something most users gain from Wikipedia without any editing, however like other environments its full of links, searchable, bookmarkable and more (Like subjects, categories, hierarchies etc…), this not at all guaranteed on most websites even content management systems, or web 2.0

I have treated TiddlyWIki’s as a document as well, letting SharePoint do the document handling, allowing a user to check out the wiki, make and save changes and check in. In this way anyone (with the rights, and one at a time) can edit the wiki. You can’t easily do this outside a single file wiki, or one accessed through a server.

  • This means that it can also be treated as a document along with being a brochure website, an interactive website, an application, a server or team site.

Rather than call multi-user an afterthought think of it as an evolution. The server was there from early in tiddlywiki 5.x history, but for other reasons.

Personally I have also a Proof of concept for allowing read only contributors to make changes and submit them to the owner for application with or without moderation.

  • It is also possible to integrate your wiki with third party solutions from google sheets, to commenting tools, to allow specific contributions to the site without changing the wiki itself.
#3

“collaborative editing” is only one aspect of what makes up a “wiki” system.

See https://tiddlytools.com/InsideTW/#TheWikiWay

and, from Ward Cunningham himself:
https://c2.com/doc/etymology.html

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#4

Not all wikis have the same features. Multi-user collaboration, that’s just one feature of many.

They all have this thing in common: editable pages.

https://www.wikimatrix.org/compare/dokuwiki+mediawiki+moinmoin+tiddlywiki+twiki

#5

Thanks @Charlie_Veniot We could add some languages and provide some different answers I see.

#6

Again, this was an afterthought. What collaborative features are there built-in to the core TiddlyWiki package? By default, TiddlyWiki is a single-user “notebook”, and not a “wiki” as such. I am not doubting that it is “…one of the most flexible solutions…” and can be used for a wide variety of purposes. But it isn’t inherently a “wiki”.

Absolutely! I note that your first link contains a list of “several key features and functions” of a wiki, which includes that “…groups of people can share information and contribute content…”. However by default this facility is absent in TiddlyWiki, without bolting on some after-market extras, such as Node.js or SharePoint services.

While I agree that not all wiki’s are “publicly editable”, the majority share the common feature of being collaboratively editable, whether that is only by authorised users or by the general public. It is a common feature of wikis in general, as most definitions available online will attest.

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#7

@FrittRo please stop sealioning here.

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#8

Yeah, I do not like where this started or where it is going. I’m out .

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#9

I have never heard of “sealioning” sorry. What exactly do you mean?

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#10

You have access to the internet? Look it up. You seem to be doing all kinds of internet research on the “exact”, “required” and “necessary” features for something to be called a wiki, for what purpose I can not fathom, yet you take a few minutes to ask yet another question of “I have never heard of sealioning” instead of just looking it up and sparing us another unnecessary question to respond to.

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#11

Wow, okay, sorry, I didn’t realise that I had to justify my existence here. I’ll leave you all to it. :wave:

#13

Nobody said you had to justify your existence. But it is off putting when you stroll into a community forum and begin questioning the use of the term “wiki” without even doing extensive research yourself.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia describing a “personal wiki”:

A personal wiki is wiki software that allows individual users to organize information on their desktop or mobile computing devices in a manner similar to community wikis, but without collaborative software or multiple users.

Single-user wiki software
There are also wiki applications designed for personal use, apps for mobile use, and apps for use from USB flash drives. They often include more features than traditional wikis, including:

  • Dynamic tree views of the wiki
  • Drag and drop support for images, text and video, mathematics
  • Use of Object Linking and Embedding or Linkback to allow wikis to act as relational superstructures for multiple desktop-type documents
  • Multimedia embedding, with links to internal aspects of movies, soundtracks, notes and comments
  • Macros and macro scripting

Which describes EXACTLY what Tiddlywiki is. My main point is this. If Tiddlywiki does not suite your needs, and does not contain collabrative features you require, then why not just find another wiki that does. I simply do not understand your need to ask the community to define, or wrose, to justify use of the term “wiki” in the first place.

#14

Thanks Eric, fascinating to read Ward Cunningham…

“The name “quick web” would have been appropriate for a system that makes web pages quickly. Microsoft’s “quick basic” was a precedent for such a name.”

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#15

Back in 2004, I felt that the most distinctive and interesting characteristic of a wiki was not the collaborative editing, but the way that wikitext makes linking be part of the punctuation of writing, rather than relegating it to a dialogue box as earlier tools had done.

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#16

I expect the alternative was rudimentary html, so even someone html literate had to type it out.

  • Time suggests to me that some form of markup is also involved even if WYSIWYG editors are now available they were not back then.
#17

I still have been unable to install Skyrim or Doom onto TiddlyWiki. If someone could tell me what plugins I’m missing, that’d be great.

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#18

Well, that went downhill fast.

#19

That’s a good point! Can it run doom?! :rofl:

#20

From my perspective as more of a user rather than a functional coder I’ve approached the term wiki as a changing definition - but I’ve continued to use - “the smallest tool that allows a user/s to do a useful thing and then a coder to add something else useful later for the user” for many years. So for example … a wiki is a tool that allows version control of text for a user with a framework for plugins for other useful things for the coder. It’s a bit broad but it helps me when there is really no definitive answer to what a wiki is.

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#21

image

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