Money -- Open Source & TW

[TW_Tones]

@telmiger

The best thing that could happen might be if we could find a main sponsor, a foundation or so, who say: Here are three million bucks, hire some talented folks and make TW more popular

@telmiger Lovely post, I agree with it entirely. What I want to add is it need not be tiddlywiki itself that gets funded but something that will sit on top of tiddlywiki. I think it may be easier to sell another concept to a broader audience than a technology, but that concept can contribute to and drive the technology and its community.

I have a project Idea I would love to run about democratisation of software, which NFP/NGO and educational foundations may support. The idea is empowering everyone to make use of software, applications design and use Via tiddlywiki of course. This includes freedom of speech, choice, empowerment, upskilling, and more. Tiddlywiki also lends itself to developing countries with it low resource needs.

@simon

Please excuse the self-promotion and do let me know if I’m violating any policies or unwritten rules here…

• Excused and totally appropriate.
• If you want to discuss other potential revenue with tiddlyhost we can

@anon5541130

Is it possible to have your own domain on tiddlyhost?

• You could just use a redirect!

[telmiger]

@boris

So do you want to volunteer to help find sponsors? Put words and theories into action?

Let me emphasize that working for TW can be very rewarding, even if there is no money in it. So everyone who can find time and energy should absolutely do it. Stop reading here and go for it!

---

Regarding my personal investment, I think I already donated a fair share of work. And it would make me happy to work on my projects Tix and Lox again to promote alternative layout capabilities of TW. But at the moment I am a bit stuck, as I have other tasks and projects with higher priority: family, heating/energy, climate/politics and paid work. As the OP says: We still need to make a living.

[telmiger]

@TW_Tones

it need not be tiddlywiki itself that gets funded but something that will sit on top of tiddlywiki.

Very true. Go for it!

Just a warning from my experience as a non-developer: If you build something on top of TW, you should not underestimate the dependencies from core developements. Especially if you modify the design, there is no guarantee for backwards compatibility and it can get very time consuming to keep up with new versions of TW.

[TW_Tones]

@telmiger

If you build something on top of TW

Perhaps you think I mean something deeper here, I am more talking about building tiddlywiki editions and the supporting macros and plugins to get a result, to meet an objective, like promoting tiddlywiki as a way to “digital/software democracy”, but if there are desirable core changes, I would not go out on my own, no tiddlywiki forking, but try and fund @jeremyruston, developers or community members to do parts of the work. Not for a selfish need, just to enhance tiddly wiki, as mediated by those responsible for it.

• Basically if we could get a worthy project funded, a side effect would be funding to develop the core or community outcomes. A chance to “wave a checkbook around”.

[saqimtiaz]

@boris

If it is open source — we should get you added to the Open Collective as a project to support.

TiddlyHost is Open Source, BSD License: https://github.com/simonbaird/tiddlyhost/blob/main/LICENSE.md

[TiddlyTweeter]

@boris

I wanted to make one simple point …
You did a lot of great work setting up this!!! …

TiddlyWikiDotOrg - Open Collective

My point? Where is the link to it in the release?

Why doesn’t EVERY empty have, by default, a link to that page?
Configurable (i.e. settings let you switch off the link, but it is there by default).

Maybe a badge at the foot of the Right Menu in every empty saying “Support TW” or something like that. That goes to that donation page?

Or maybe a NAG on load like The Guardian has (configurable).

My main point is that to get money you need very clear routes for people to know how to give it.

Just thoughts!
TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

@telmiger

Acutally I have thought a lot about money and marketing in connection with TiddlyWiki and I have tried some action too.

I found it a very interesting post! Thanks! Useful in that it illustrates the marketing issues well.

I do think it shows clearly that if we interested in getting a little income for developers we will need to go into the marketing issue more.

Open source itself does not sell itself passively.

Just because TW is f*ing brilliant won’t sell it.

Thoughts in process, TT

[boris]

Would you like to volunteer on the donations working group to help get this implemented?
→ #projects:opencollective

[TiddlyTweeter]

@boris

Would you like to volunteer on the donations working group to help get this implemented?
→ #projects:opencollective

I don’t really know what I could add other than what I wrote already?

But I’ll take a look.

Best, TT

[boris]

I’m looking for volunteers to commit time to getting things like this done.

Talk to Jeremy and the wider community for feedback. Do mock-ups. Write content. Check in on progress of donations monthly. Recruit others.

No problem if you don’t have the time. But “maybe someone should do X” isn’t enough to move things forward.

[TiddlyTweeter]

@boris

I actually wish Quine was $5/month, since that I would make me feel secure that the app can continue to be maintained! I really should talk to Chris Hunt

Right. The quandry of maintenance & money. I think it right to be open to modest charges for services.

Just a comment, TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

One way would be to have an advertising front-end on first download … that gives TW a cent or two … and then disappears

Lady Gaga - Poker Face (Official Music Video)

[TiddlyTweeter]

We should advertise @jeremyruston as a SUPER GYMNAST of HYPERTEXT. He really is!

Volvo Trucks - The Epic Split feat. Van Damme (Live Test)

Thoughts, TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

@boris

TW is NOT at a stage where there is an abundance of paid work.

Ciao @boris, I wanted to comment on that.

I seriously think that there might actually be much work.

It is that we have no “Consultancy Business”
I think to get business you have to have a business to handle it …

I do wonder if we could have a central clearing house that could match developers with jobs?

Just an early thought,
TT

[boris]

@TiddlyTweeter

I do wonder if we could have a central clearing house that could match developers with jobs?

Just an early thought,
TT

Great idea. Please put a project team together and make a page to start curating this.

I’m going to continue suggesting that people take action as the next step for every suggestion.

[anon5541130]

@boris

I think there are some interesting options around memberships — eg only people who donate can “vote” on something. But it is a very tricky model that is only now emerging in open source communities. EG early access to the next release.

The change-org website works on the public petition model, I believe that your idea is close to the public petition model.

1. I mentioned this… here “Open and free resource voting system”

2. But…

“I don’t think we should do voting, because that assumes there are some set of developers ready to be able to work on these features.” - @boris

• yeah!

3. concept

4. But…

This involves selecting the type of vote (democracy type):

• Direct democracy.
• Representative democracy.
• Constitutional democracy.
• Monitory democracy.

5. concept

5.1. Who requests resources?

Users using tiddlwiki, developers, designers

5.2. Who develops the resources?

programmers

5.3. who votes for resources?

1. only users using tiddlwiki “only end users who vote”
2. Users using tiddlwiki, developers, designers “everybody votes”
3. developers only “developer only selection”
4. designers only “selection only for people working on the product”

6. refs

• Types of democracy - Wikipedia

[anon5541130]

1. Example

1.1 “who votes for resources?”?

• Representative democracy “developers” and/or “designers” and/or “users using tiddlwiki”?
• Constitutional democracy *only members community tiddlywiki (discourse)? people who signed a voluntary contract term for tiddlywiki(community)?"
• …

examples/concepts

[TW_Tones]

@TiddlyTweeter

One way would be to have an advertising front-end on first download … that gives TW a cent or two … and then disappears

Please, no advertising, and if necessary, if it ever is, make it opt in only. Personally I can’t stand the crap, the world is drowning in it.

• Also if using an “advertising service” you may find adds for your competitor appearing and at a minimum they compete for the attention of the visitor and may drag them away.

[anon5541130]

@TW_Tones

Please, no advertising, and if necessary, if it ever is, make it opt in only. Personally I can’t stand the crap, the world is drowning in it.

• Also if using an “advertising service” you may find adds for your competitor appearing and at a minimum they compete for the attention of the visitor and may drag them away.

1. You are saying something wrong, wrong. He is right.
2. What if you used that same advertising to promote other social pages on tiddlwiki and increase its value in people’s perceptions? Wouldn’t that be a good thing?
3. The idea he suggested is good if used wisely.
4. There are paid private advertisements where you earn money and can reinvest in the community and in any social project as Brave Rewards or EthicalAds