June has arrived. Time's up for Timimi?

#1

At this thread I brought up the problem that Timimi wasn’t working anymore. Actually, I managed to reactivate it and it has continued working at least up to yesterday June 1, but it was said by several in the thread that in June Timimi would no longer be supported, so it is just a matter of time.

There are two possible tasks:

  1. for developers wanting to make TiddlyWiki accessible to the non-techie world after Timimi becomes impossible to use, the task is for someone could create a clone of Timimi and figure out how to make it compliant with the new changes in Chrome (and it was suggested other browsers would likely follow Chrome). Actually there was significant discussion in the thread linked above, but I don’t know if it fizzled out or what. But that is something way above my paygrade so I leave that to more capable hands.

  2. for Chrome users who want to continue working with TiddlyWiki on Chrome, the task is to decide on which of the alternative savers to use. I am listing the ones mentioned in the thread linked above. The number in parenthesis is to the number of the post in that thread.

a) TiddlyStow (1)
b) TW native saver (1, 38)
c) Rclone with TiddlyWiki (1, 6, 7)
d) Tiddlyhost (15)
e) buggy/savetiddlers (37)
f) Set up a webdav (39)
g) TiddlyWiki-app (43)
h) node.js [not mentioned but I add it here anyway]
i) Bob saver plugin (see post 8 in the current thread)

Most of these will probably not work for me, a non-techie. I have a lot of TiddlyWiki files and like to jump back and forth between them from my bookmarks or from links. I don’t want to have to use the command line to open files. The number of files precludes hosting them on TiddlyHost. Some options do not have instructions clear enough for someone at my level. Some options are limited because my laptop is administered by my employer. But I am going to go through them again and share here afterwards any problems I run into so those of you suffering from the curse of knowledge can see things from a “little guys’” perspective.

Anyway, the other thread got long, so this is an attempt to get the conversation rolling again.

#2

Option B: TW native saver: my observations and questions:

  1. Can there be a demo version of this so users don’t have to go to GitHub to get this? You guys are all used to GitHub and you have no idea how intimidating and confusing the GitHub user interface is to those of us who don’t use it.

  2. I followed the instructions. I found example-wiki.html and downloaded it, then added it to a copy of tiddlywiki.com that I downloaded for testing. The popup came up. Most things self-explanatory or had been mentioned in the GitHub instructions. The part that is unclear is, What is “Allow FS to use indexedDB”. My questions: What is FS? What is indexedDB? Will Native saver not work if I don’t check this box? What advantage is it to me to check this box?

  3. I don’t remember if I checked or not, but it worked. I created a tiddler, wrote a few random letters, and saved it.

  4. Question: Do I need to go through the process of adding the plugin this to every single file I want to use?

  5. Question: the GitHub instructions say “if you just want to import the plugin…” As opposed to doing what? Is there something better I can do? If so, what is it and how do I do it?

(edit: I just saw @Mark_S comments in the old thread about having to deal with the dialogue box each time you reload. So here are more comments:)

  1. I could probably accept having to click ‘save’ to save the dialog box that comes up on each reload. Annoying but would be one click. However, when I click save, it opens the Windows explorer thingy that asks me where I want to save my file. And it isn’t open at the folder where the file is. It is open at my default folder for saving. So to save the file to its previous location, I have to navigate to it! I hope I am doing it wrong and can be instructed on how to do it correctly, because if that is how it works, this option will not work for me - that is too long and tedious a process.
#3

Option F: Set up a WebDAV:

Since I use Windows, I opened Mario Pietsch’s video series. Got to the second video, searched for features, clicked turn Windows features on and off, and got a dialog box asking me for admin email and password. That requires my organization’s permission, so that is as far as I got. I may attempt this, but I will have to try the other available options first.

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#4

RCLONE is a much easier way to set up webdav, IMO.

#5

I would invest on TW native saver as first option. For me the current version works fine on Chrome and Edge. WebDAV while is easy to use, but not for non-technical people.
By the way, I am very hopeful a developer take on the role and update Timimi, as it is the most straight forward method for non technical people.

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#6

In that thread, I posted a way to keep Timimi alive. Even a complete installer for Linux. And I think I could make an installer for Mac, but need someone to test it. The hard bit is windows, where Riz used a proprietary piece of software for building the installer. So windows people need to make a one-line change to a text file by hand.

There was almost zero interest in that post, which would be the first step to making a complete Timimi replacement, so I didn’t follow up.

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#7

Option G: TiddlyWiki-app

  1. I got to this thread. It mentions Electron. Will I need Electron for this to work? Or is Electron just the app that this app was created with? There is a link, but no instructions there. The first reply is by @Scott_Sauyet saying he had issues. So if he does, just imagine me. But anyway, let’s open the link.

  2. GitHub again. See my first comment on option B. And worse, there are no instructions at GitHub on what to do. And of the files listed, even when I click to reveal all assets, there is nothing explicitly labeled as Windows. Sorry, but that is as far as I get without more hand-holding.

Update:

  1. I downloaded the exe file from the link @Scott_Sauyet gave me. Windows Defender warned me not to proceed. I took my chances. Perhaps this happened because I did not also download the “blockmap” file? I don’t know what a blockmap is.

  2. Clicked on TiddlyWiki5 app on my desktop. Now a TiddlyWiki file opened. I create a tiddler and save it. There is no “saved wiki” message. I restart and the changes I made are there. Success! But not having a message is nerve-wracking…

  3. File > Open existing wiki > navigated to a folder where I know there are existing TiddlyWiki files: no TiddlyWiki files are visible. What do I do to use this app to find and open existing TWs? Here is where I need instructions. Is this a .tid-file-only system like node.js? I can work with that for creating new wikis, but I still need to know how to work with all my standalone files.

#8

Has anyone used the Bob Saver plugin (not the executable, there is a Bob Saver plugin that works with Tiddlywiki like any other plugin). Once that is installed, you just have to run a small python file (double click on it) and any wiki with the bob saver plugin will save automatically. It is quite handy and very easy to set up (as long as you already have python installed). No nodejs setup, no special version of Tiddlywiki, executable, etc. You can even have it auto-run when windows boots up.

I’ll try and find the link as it is eluding me right now.

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#9

I use the Tiddlywiki app daily, it is easy to use. Just download the package from github site and install just like any other software in your OS. It is electron based app for node js version of tiddlywiki. You can easily import your single file wiki into the app. Also there is an option for export as html wiki.

@oeyoews must be able to help you if you encounter any issues since he is active here.

#10

Yeah, that’s unclear. If you don’t use the indexedDB, then it will ask you over and over for a place to store the file – which is probably not what you want. The reason it isn’t the default is because of the hypothetical security concern.

As opposed to doing everything that follows, which is more developer oriented.

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#11

Option E: buggy/savetiddlers

  1. This doesn’t look promising, since @Thanasis_Sklapanis post says it “still works with Chrome”, as if implying it might not later? Maybe not, but it is not an encouraging thought.

  2. GitHub again. But at least there are instructions there, and they are pretty clear. The only part not clear is if the downloaded file also needs to go in the subdirectory, or if it stays in the directory above the subdirectory. I see now it is the latter.

  3. A Firefox installer exe file showed up in my subdirectory when I clicked save on the Tiddlywiki file I placed in the subdirectory. It saved tiddlywiki.html (1) to the subdirectory. Well, success in saving, at least. But now new files will be created each time I save? This reminds me of the early days of TW classic. How do I avoid that? Will I have to delete all the new files every day except the newest one, then rename that to get rid of the copy number?

#12

Thanks, but see my post about it (#7 in the current thread)

#13

I had a go at porting savetiddlers to chome v3 last year but it randomly crashed the browser. I have left it alone until the last minute before trying again, hoping that any bug in the v3 will has been fixed. So I will try again in the next few days…

#14

You’re on a release page for the app. The thing is, you don’t see the windows version. Click on “see all 24 assets” (something like that). Scroll almost to the bottom. There’s an .exe file which means windows.

I believe this is explaining how it is built. A lot of developers these days feel Electron is bloated. Compared to Timimi, this is kind of big. But not too bad.

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#15

Ah, so exe = windows. That is a big help, thank you!

#16

Electron is the system tiddlywiki-app is built upon. Electron is bundled with the application. The end user doesn’t have to care about this, but as the TW community is heavily JavaScript-centric, many people here might want to know that tiddlywiki-app is written atop a JS tool. That’s probably all you ever need to know about this if you don’t care about the technical details behind your software. (As most people shouldn’t.)

This is a common issue with developers, myself included. We’re much more interested in creating systems than in writing comprehensive documentation for them. So we take shortcuts.

The shortcut here is in making a link to https://github.com/oeyoews/tiddlywiki-app/releases the whole of the Installation instructions. For many users, that’s enough. But if that doesn’t make sense, then visit that page, expand the latest version (at the top, and it’s likely already expanded when you get there, but you might have to choose “show more.” I’m going to guess that you’re on Windows; the instructions will be different for Mac or Linux. Find the link in the list to tiddlywiki-<VERSION>.exe (as of this writing, that’s tiddlywiki-app-4.8.1.exe.) Download and run that file.

I don’t know if this is an installer that will install tiddlywiki-app on your system or the actual app itself. (I’m not allowed to download arbitrary executables onto my work machine. While that doesn’t always stop me, there’s not enough benefit here for me to risk corporate ire.) Either way, it should work like other such tools do for you. If it’s an installer, when it’s complete, simply start the installed app, as you would, say Chrome, or MS Word. If it’s just the app, then it should start up immediately.

Note that this was the very first public mention of this tool. It was not available as a downloadable bundle, only as source code the users had to build themselves. This is common, and I reported that I got it to work, but had to skip what I thought was the default setup.

I haven’t really followed up much. Although I’m glad to see it for those who want it, I don’t use such tools. I’ve never used Timmini, or Bob, Tidgi, or TiddlyDesktop. (That’s probably an exaggeration; I’ve likely tried most of these, but they’re not part of my regular TW experience.) I’m running my wikis mostly on Node, and occasionally as single-file wikis I save carefully and back up regularly. These setups work well for me. But I would suggest that you do follow through on this one, as it sounds likely to be a good fit for you.

#17

Here is the plugin I referred to: BobSaver — Version 0.2.1

I just dragged the plugin from that page to my single file tiddlywiki, ran a modified python server (which I can post or send you, it’s a tiny 4k file), and all is good now. Automatic saving just like Timmini.

I had to use a slightly modified version of the python file because the one on that page didn’t work for me. My modified one works fine though.

#18

Many sites that offer downloads for many environments have headers for Mac, Windows, and various flavors of Linuxes. I don’t know why GitHub doesn’t. It would be useful.

But yes, the standard Windows executable will end in .exe. (The most common software installers will end in .msi, but they are themselves executables, and might just end in .exe.)

#19

Requesting the admin email and password seems to be new, since I did create the playlist.

I did watch the videos again and it should still work that way. I successfully use this mechanism since 2017 where I did create the videos. So for me it is pretty robust.

The server is started with the machine, so it is immediately available for me. If it should be available for the whole network it is the best to talk to the companies IT staff. There is a very high chance that they already know IIS and they should know what to do.

#20

Sure, @belmont224 please attach that python file and I will try it.

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