How to stimulate User Growth of TW?

#31

Ansewr ? No !

Actually @Mark_S I think you are on to something here. Not only could Timimi or a version of it be preeminent but we could bend over backwards to point to and even contain the necessary components within a tiddlywiki distribution available with a click.

In fact a few other empty + saver setups could be made available to facilitate download and saving. I may have a play with a few today.

For people of a certain age, perhaps somewhat younger as well, Joplin is memorable because of Janice.

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#32

With respect… while you clearly have a very strong opinion about the “TiddlyWiki” name, I think you are doing your argument a huge disservice by offering up “facts” that have no demonstrable basis.

  1. “100 to 300 million” is an unprovable number that comes across as “… let me pick a number that sounds really huge, because I want to be persuasive, even though I have no idea what the actual number is.”

  2. I searched (using Google) for the term “TiddlyWinky”. It found NO matches. Not as a slang term… not as a perjorative… not ANYTHING at all.

I did find numerous matches for “TiddlyWinks”, including links to:

There is a minor connotation of “trivial” mentioned here: https://grammarist.com

“…often used as a negative comparison to an item or situation to stress the importance or difficulty of that item or situation in contrast to the triviality of tiddlywinks.”

and the Urban Dictionary (which is hardly a definitive source of meaning) notes:

“…used today to disparagingly call something trivial…”

Even so… the primary problem with “user growth of TW” has very little to do with it’s NAME. There are many other words (especially on-line) that started out with “trivial” meanings, such as “Google”, “Twitter”, “Yahoo”, etc… and let us not forget the origin of “Wikipedia”… a fanciful portmanteau of the Hawaiian word “wiki”, meaning “quick”, and “pedia” (from the word “encyclopedia”).

-e

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#33

Actually, I developed tiddly-gittly/TidGi-Desktop with multiple-wiki switching support, and is polished as a clean desktop app. Mainly for solving the saving problem for new users.

When telling people about tiddlywiki, I directly introduce the TidGi, and it seems to make it easier to convince users to switch from Notion to Tiddlywiki. And some of user will switch to other saving mechanism when they get fremillar to how tw works, TidGi won’t lock their data, because it is still build on TW.

But the pure empty edition will really hold some new user’s step, it will need too much to download and setup, before they write down a first note. So I never recommend download an empty edition.

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#34

@linonetwo I am really excided about your work here and this in particular;

Like you I think empty.html should be regulated to an edition you can get if needed and the default download should be saving enabled version, however we do it. Even if it includes guidance to install a saver.

  • Mario has a downloads folder solution for autosave
  • I have a local storage plus changes backup method
  • You seem to be getting there with TidGi

However I am trying too keep up with your contributions to the community and struggling a little, both because of your advanced skills, and my not so advanced skills and the appearance of Chinese in many of your solutions. I understand and I am very grateful you speak/read both languages and are really promoting this into the Chinese language users (That is fantastic) but I have to be honest and say as a result I find it hard to understand all of your great work.

I just tried tidGi for windows and unfortunately once changing languages need to contyend with this;

Snag_127dfec5

then
Snag_127ebd91

and how do I

  1. Check the ~TiddlyWiki command line for a message confirming the tiddler has been saved

What you are doing seems so amazing, but I just cant make use of it yet.

#35

None of these are embarrassing to say in a meeting. Yahoo and Google were both introduced at a time where there were few competitors. There are at least 2 dozen competitors to TW now. Plus they advertised. If you can advertise, you can overcome any name.

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#36

So to sum up what I am reading:

  1. If we change the name to something less goofy, like totallywiki,
  2. package empty.html with Timimi or some similar easy to use saving method,
  3. make the onboarding cleaner and with a video
  4. Advertise

We will be awash with new users. Can we get this done by the end of the month and move on? :slight_smile:

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"Nah... not for me" - Why?
#37

If the Admins agree to act as judges (they are already having to decide how to allocate the $ that are donated), I could put up a bounty that pays if the end of month target is met, $1,000 to the top contributor, $500 to the second and $250 to the third.

Thoughts?

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#38

Like Tony, I can’t really understand what I’m seeing. Is TidGi another version of Tiddlydesktop? The biggest problem with TD is that the user experience outside a browser simply isn’t as rich, universal, or versatile as when used inside a browser.

Edit. Ok. Have had time to slow down and look a bit.

It seems to be a TiddlyDesktop style tool that uses node.js (separate tiddlers) and saves directly to Github. I think anything with Github is going to be too advanced for getting people onboard. I can see why developers might like it – if I understand correctly, developers could write widgets that use Electron components.

Since you’re writing in Electron, let me ask you. Do you think it would be possible to have an Android version of TD (or TidGi) ?

#39

Ciao @Mark_S & @EricShulman

I noticed your exchanges on the naming issue.

IF I get time I will research the linguistic use of “tiddly” & “tiddler” & post it to our Café.

It is not so simple to get clear answers as one needs consider also the “reception environment” (i.e. who and where folk considering TW are coming from?)

Briefly, my current sense is that in English speaking countries the words are multi-valent, often in a negative way. Though there are, I think, variations in use between English speaking countries.

For instance, in the United Kingdom, “Tiddly” can definitely be associated with being “slightly drunk”. And “Tiddler” is used both descriptively for something “very small / tiny” and in derogatory usage as a diminutive.

Just a comment
TT

#40

I am trying too keep up with your contributions to the community and struggling a little, both because of your advanced skills, and my not so advanced skills and the appearance of Chinese in many of your solutions

Surely I always want to make my plugins i18n, but I haven’t found a clear guide to do i18n, as discussed in Proposal : integrate a translation macro into the core · Issue #4179 · Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5 · GitHub

Some of your confusion about that dialog, and the expanded sidebar, are common I think. (first dialog is because nodejs wiki creates a net connection, second is just sidebar on the top, you just need to widen the window.)
I’m planning to have a help workspace shown when app is open, like how Obsidian does it:

截屏2022-05-09 16.54.10
截屏2022-05-09 16.54.101156×1096 30.6 KB

I think I can answer many FAQs in it and help new TidGi user get around any confusion, and learn how to use more resources of tiddlywiki.

This is what I learnt from Obsidian, and Joplin app may have something I can learn from too. By getting good parts from them, I think we have a chance to catch them up.

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#41

Do you think it would be possible to have an Android version of TD (or TidGi) ?

There is already a GitHub - donmor/Tiddloid: Tiddloid is an app to work with locally stored TiddlyWikis.
And I have made a plugin GitHub - tiddly-gittly/tw-mobile-sync: Sync data between Mobile HTML (Tiddloid) <-> Desktop App (TidGi) . So there is no need for me to write another Android App!

It seems to be a TiddlyDesktop style tool that uses node.js (separate tiddlers) and saves directly to Github.

Yes, but you can create a local wiki, then you won’t need to know what Github is. Do you agree with that? Seems many of its new users will still try to connect to Github and bump into troubles…

And there are some API exposed to tw side from electron, like open file at location and get old version of file from git history. So some js plugin can use them.

#42

Ciao @EricShulman and @Mark_S

A footnote on the “naming issue”.

The fact is that USER reports can matter despite what you look-up on the net. (Please do not ask me to forage around in the prior GG swamp of posts about the name to prove that it has been a recurrent issue.)

Linguistic analysis of real language usage is always partial. A net search on it is often wrong.

IMO, the often occurring disquiet with “Tiddly” and “Tiddler” has an anthropological (observed) reality. To me that is ground zero on naming.

Just a comment
TT

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#43

Sure, and there’s also Quinoid.

But neither of these look like the desktop TW. With Electron, a user can have the same experience on the desktop, iPhone, and Android. I think this is the approach used by Joplin and Standard Notes. It wouldn’t have to be you personally that writes this – I was just wondering if you thought it was possible.

#44

Right. Quinoid I thought super.

Now I’m out of my depth :frowning:

Briefly, from “end-user” angle, anything that works seamlessly cross-browser may win???

TBH, the “stimulation of growth” maybe looks like the SALT of UNIVERSAL?

Just a comment, TT.

#45

Seems to stop updating in 0.0.8alpha three years ago? So I think Tiddloid is the only boot-loader on android now.

And electron can only develop the desktop app, mobile is not supported.

#46

Because there’s Tiddloid, which pretty much got Jeremy’s blessing. And because Android changes every day almost. The alpha is just to warn people to take care of their own data.

I’m pretty sure Joplin and Standard Notes are either using Electron, or maybe a shared interface developed in React ?

#47

Waiting for a Giffoid

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#48

Godot may be delayed caro.

#49

What I find interesting about the name of open source software is that there is nothing in the licenses about repackaging and renaming the product.

In early years - ‘Java’ has been named - GreenTalk, Oak, Silk, among others. Around 1990? ‘Oak’ was the name that was wished by Sun Microsystems as had a positive international vibe being the national tree of many countries - Well rooted, strong, expansive, branching, etc. A few years later… trademark violation! Then became ‘Java’.

Smalltalk by Alan Kay went through similar renaming and variations of which many still exist. Smalltalk, Squeak, Pharo. Going from ‘Squeak’ to ‘Pharo’ was very similar to the debate of TiddlyWiki’s name. ‘Pharo’ is much more professional sounding.

So if you do not like the TiddlyWiki name - then in your implementation of TiddlyWiki you can name it anything you want. You must must retain the TiddlyWiki copyright notice, and you can not say that your implementation is endorsed unless permitted by Jeremy/UnaMesa.

I am not a lawyer, so above may not be that simple.

I know Jeremy is very interested in community discussion and debate - But realistically, he invented it, built the foundation, promotes, guides, and whole hardheartedly supports it. As a community we should give him the respect to let him name it whatever HE wants!

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#50

That strikes me as the best approach to the issue.

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