Discourse on Discourse: The transition period should be long

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#41

@Ste_W @Mark_S I use Stylus for this. I basically play with my browser’s Inspector tool to fiddle with the CSS and then save anything I want changed to the extension to make them (semi-)permanent. For instance, I just noticed I had missed grayscaling emojis. A cursory check shows that they are neatly coded with an “emoji” class, so I just need to add the following to my CSS override:

img.emoji {
    filter: grayscale(1);
}

I have a few more, which you’ll find attached here: LessStimulatingTWDiscourse.css.tid (601 Bytes). It’s attached as a fake .tid because .css aren’t accepted as a valid attachment but you can simply open the file and copy-paste them into Stylus. Stylus has live preview, so you can also drop them one by one and see which ones you find useful without having to get down to the bottom of every single line.

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#42

Thanks @Mark_S for taking the time to critique me. I appreciate it.

No. It is more the visual complexity.

The threading of “Latest” (i.e. post order of latest first) is similar. But not identical.
The difference is that on Google Groups I can mark all posts as read to know what is needing attention. That is not possible on Discourse. The Discourse thing with “New” is redundant IF you simply want to read 1 list.

Why have to click two menu items when one would do IF “Latest” could mark all items as read. In short: “Latest” has no “Mark as Read” button.

Confession: I’m the first to confess that I may be suffering from nostalgia for GG procedures. But, I don’t think Discourse is half as smart as it thinks it is.

Anyway.
That said.
I actually am in favor of getting off GG.
My comments on Discourse are essentially about the UI which I think is sub-optimal. Noisey & over-featured.

A dopo caro
TT

#43

Latest Always appears. An across-the-board reckoning of what’s happening on the board (below any pinned topics). In short, it’s not about you, it’s about the board.

  Since it is not about you, a dismiss button does not make sense here.

New, on the other hand, is about you. Every New Topic (not new posts/replies) that has been added that you have not yet seen/read. Only appears when there is something new – obviously.

  Since this is about you, a dismiss button appears below the list.

Unread Threads you have read but that now contain new posts/replies (or other changes).

  Once again, since this is about you, a dismiss button appears below the list.

Josiah, might I suggest you stop looking at Discourse through a GG prism? It’s distorting your view. :eyeglasses: :nerd_face:

Background especially for you:

Discourse is trying to be a technology mediated discourse community. Saying you were present to be able to then say you read something when you in fact did not, is, to put it mildly, not true. If you want to “make out” you read something, you have to participate and at the very minimum, visit the topic.

wikipedia: Discourse community - Wikipedia – that’s right, it’s a thing.

HTH.

#44

I’m a little confused here. How does marking everything as read help you know what is needing?

#45

Understandable query. Because it is a benchmark. Sorts the needed from the cruft (once there is something novel).

#46

Lol! You may be right. Are you a Discourse Convert? I like to know who I am talking to :bell: :musical_keyboard: :boot: :globe_with_meridians: :cat2: :lion: :tiger: :rofl:

#47

Convert? Not exactly. More a google-hater. I toyed with the idea of saying, “through a GG prison” but thought better of it. I think the point was made :wink:

I’ve been using Discourse a while elsewhere (at my day job) for about 4 or 5 years.

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#48

You’re confirming what I’m diagnosing as your problem.

Follow along with my simplistic guide above. Treat everything far down the Latest listing as “below the fold” (you might read it one day, or you might bump into those posts when searching). As pointed out by @Boris somewhere, there is a “red line” that appears across the page: below that line is what was present when you last visited, above is newer stuff since your last visit.

Honestly, Latest is the only view you (most people) really need. It’s basically “everything” while New and Unread (which I think would be better named “Updated”) are filtered views.

Categories? Unnecessary for a poly-reader/poster like you :wink:

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#49

Too be sure;

“Latest” would be corrupted if it were not the latest on the forum, New (to you) or Unread is naturally your own perspective, and personal choice as to if you are prepared to “loose information” to alter a count is yours.

The exception for me is Google Group visibility in Discourse, I would prefer to treat GG independently, just using Discourse to alert me to GG activity. I have no trouble with GG remaining unread I would just like to separate it from the other content I do engage with in Discourse.

I have not yet seen a way to say “view all new or unread - except the GG forum category”.

#50

I mute the entire GG category to accomplish this. I can go in and view it “manually” when I want.

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#51

I did silence the GG in the GG settings. So I don’t get new e-mails from GG anymore.

I also did mute the GG notifications here. So the only thing that I see is new GG content in the latest overview. So it’s as any other post.

Thats works well for me

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#52

I just want to add the defer button when available is the equivalent of “mark unread” but bookmarks are another way to return to something of interest and you can have them reappear in any period.

#53

Ciao @TW_Tones

I’m appreciative of your restatement that …

Actually it isn’t.

Why? Because it only applies “dismiss” to the column it appears on.

The main post list (aka “Latest”) does not change the status of it’s posts.

The point of my probe into all this was merely it makes most make sense to me to read one list, not three.

IF I mark items dismissed I do expect that to be reflected everywhere.

At the same time, I been beating on this drum too long already. I’m coming over as negative when I’m not.

Simply commenting that Discourse is over-complicated.

Best wishes
TT

#54

TT,

You are not telling me anything new. I mentioned previously that the latest shows “the latest” with little regard to us. All I can say is don’t look at it if it disturbs you.

What would you do if you accidently “dismissed” something?, unless you remember where it came from?, you could look in latest. If however you destroy what latest does, it is you who will not have a specific place to see the latest things.

I also suggested to make your choices and settings, live by the notifications you get (click on your avatar when numbers appear) and do nothing else and be happy like me.

If course I usually take a stroll around the site to see if something new or old interests me.

I have found supreme contentment as a result :pray:

#55

That is hardly an advertisement :slight_smile: for Discourse.

I see your point. I actually pretty much grasp what is going on. It is not an accidental issue for me that “Latest” show stuff as unread marked as “read” already.

Okay vicar. Enjoy. :slight_smile:

#56

Personal Update on the switch to Discourse …

1 - It is very different from Google Groups!

2 - In some ways it feels like it came about as a fait accompli. What I mean is that the transition largely was an esoteric process most of us never saw.

3 - I am pretty sure that ongoing issues in our Discourse will be about making sure naïve beginners can quickly know it’s landscape.

I am NOT yet convinced our Discourse is as transparent as it should be for them!

4 - The role of “moderation” on Discourse is totally different than it was on GG. Now it is an endeavour of active sizeable proportions. That is not intrinsically bad. But it IS a big change.

5 - On a more positive personal note …

  • I am happy about who the moderators are

  • I hope they will maintain the old liberalism of the GG

  • I also see that the “Categories” will be helpful long term. That, for instance, having “Showcase” will help promote TW in a way that the GG was incapable of.

I’m still slightly in-between on whether, overall, it is better than GG. Give me a couple of months more.

TT

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#57

TT,

I hope you will discover in time why it looked like this “fait accompli” and the rational behind how it works. First I would say most of the features, perhaps even 95% are nothing new when it comes to modern collaboration forums. So learning Discourse is learning 90% of other platforms as well.

The “fait accompli” is in my mind due to an extreme deficit in GG and the reduced effort easier communication of Discourse. Its was hard to keep away for me.

I agree but this was also the case for GG as well, and more often than not we had to say “no you can’t”.

With some powers in that area I still don’t do any moderation myself (yet), though I did do two spelling /typo’s that were significant to the meaning, and would prefer if someone wanted to split a thread they would “talk about it or even suggest it” rather than just do it.

One day I had two or more splits done with my replies and got quite lost, I was of the opinion my comments were appropriate in the original thread but the person who split it “had another opinion”. Frankly I do not like systems driven unilaterally by someone else based on “opinion”, and just finding it done. This was not possible in GG and should stop as a matter of practice in Discourse. At least a private request should be sent “seeking an ok” first.

Take all the time you need!

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#58

I think it is certainly true that on Discourse there has quickly arisen a “culture of moderation” that did not exist on the GG. On the whole it looks fine to me. Mainly because I trust the people who do that. But I do think that more transparency is needed.

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#59

Update, 4 months later.

I wanted to update for my experience since the transfer …

  1. Overall, Discourse wins over GG because …
  • It is more flexible
  • It allows diverse branching & functions which are good for TW needs (e.g. “sort-of wikis”; “communal edit”.)
  1. But I still think that the deeper workings remain obscure that should not be, especially for newbies.
  • I am not sure how easily this could be addressed?

Just comments
TT

#60

For what it is worth, I would cast my vote in favor of Discourse. The main deciding factors were the following

  1. Ability to mention a particular user, which will notify him/her and invite their attention to the subject. People who might not monitor the forum continously but would still like to answer questions regarding their plugins would find it helpful.

  2. Ability to like/upvote replies. Many times I don’t have much to add to the opinion already stated in a thread. Upvoting allows me to contribute to the conversation without adding to the noise. I guess people on the introvert side of social interaction scale would also find it more palatable.

  3. Ability to subscribe to a topic via RSS feed. RSS feeds allows me follow various website updates from one place without interference of algorithms. Since google groups did away with RSS feed and ability to reply from mobile, it was not easy to follow the community discussions.

I understand not everything is shiny. However in the cost-benefit analysis, Discourse is winning over GG right now :v:

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