We need a core macro similar to the toc macro to transclude all hierarchical content

[Scott_Sauyet]

@Mark_S

@Scott_Sauyet

My point, though, was that such work was custom. The flattening is hand-crafted.

My approach is to use the kin filter or the recursive method as a first approximation. Then follow one or two techniques. [ … ]

Do you use this only to collect a bunch of one-level transclusions? Or can this be extended to show hierarchical lists? If you open my charter document, it has one main tiddler which transcludes all the other content tiddlers, organized into Chapters, Sections, Subsections, and Sub-subsections. But each chapter, section, etc. is its own tiddler, and, importantly to me, has its own permalink. They are transcluded in a careful way to respect the hierarchy. To me, that’s a large part of the requirements. I couldn’t tell from your descriptions whether either technique would support this.

[Mark_S]

I did have a system set up to hide sub-hierarchies. Based on a level number in each tiddler. But it’s not really worth the effort.

If you have consistent formatting for each level, then maybe the flattened text would reflect that.

Using indenture to reflect hierarchy has the problem that you can quickly end up with only a narrow 2 cm band for text!

[Scott_Sauyet]

Ok. That very different requirements to mine. For me, having URLs like these is crucial:

• #Chapter5
• #Section403
• #Section203C
• #Section701D(12)

But that’s part of my point that a generic tool for this is difficult. There’s such a variety of needs that it sounds extremely challenging to find useful commonalities. I am going to have to look into @Mohammad’s Sections plugin, though.

[Springer]

@Scott_Sauyet

After that, I still count you and Tony, and add Springer, Mario, and me; not a big difference.

To be clear: I had not even seen the post at all prior to the revision.

[TW_Tones]

@tomzheng

Tutorials and manuals are typically linear. Currently, the content on the official TiddlyWiki website is linear.

actually it is hierarchical perhaps even networked.

using tagging tree operator is a way to flatten a hierarchy of titles into a list.

@pmario revised toc code would likely make the transclusion of a flattened toc easy through the item template.

• @pmario can you release this independent of the core macros such as mtoc for modern toc?
• we, especially you, put a lot of effort into it, let’s publish before it ages away?

[tomzheng]

@Scott_Sauyet

My point, though, was that such work was custom. The flattening is hand-crafted. Look at all the complexity in the TOC macros… which still aren’t flexible enough for many. And then think of how much more flexibility we would want in a flattener. It strikes me as too complex a problem to solve generically. But I’d love to be proven wrong.

Can I suggest that if you want to work toward this, you do a custom one for a medium complexity wiki, without worrying yet about a generic approach. If that works well, then look to two or three other wikis (not your own), which have similar needs (feel free to use mine above) and see if you can find a common design that would cover all of them with reasonable amounts of customization. You don’t need to implement it, not yet: just document a design. If you can do that, I’ll be impressed and will be much more willing to try to coordinate on a generic implementation.

A great learning resource for custom styles is @Mohammad 's section plugin. It offers numerous predefined styles and allows users to write their own.

@Mark_S also has the same need for TOC as I do.

Table of Contents for Section Editor Plugin - Discussion - Talk TW

My requirements are very straightforward: I just need a numbering system before the title. The numbers themselves should indicate the hierarchy. That’s all I need. Since my requirements are so simple, I can achieve this by hacking @Mohammad 's section plugin. It offers numerous predefined styles and allows users to write their own.

My requirements are very straightforward: I just need a numbering system before the title. The numbers themselves should indicate the hierarchy. That’s all I need. Since my requirements are so simple, I can achieve this by hacking @EricShulman 's code. I’m not a detail-oriented person, so I’m not suited to be a product manager. The result I want looks like this below—just simple numbering is fine.

Old Release notes | Org mode

Why am I proposing this feature for inclusion in the core macro? First, this functionality is essential for tiddlywiki’s ecosystem to communicate with external systems. Second, once integrated into the core macro, many users will contribute requests and suggestions, refining the flatten macro into a polished tool.

@Scott_Sauyet

Tutorials, yes, almost by definition. But reference manuals usually are meant to be random access. Diátaxis has more information.

Since the reference manual can be printed, it inherently possesses certain linear characteristics. Although readers use the reference manual in a non-linear manner, my linear requirement is simply to be able to communicate externally without relying on the wiki.

@Scott_Sauyet

As far as I can tell, there is no way to actually make print references to specific pages.

For example: “Please refer to Section 1.2.5.”

@Scott_Sauyet

Before your rewrite was posted, I count you, Tony, Eric, and Mohammad participating. After that, I still count you and Tony, and add Springer, Mario, and me; not a big difference. I don’t remember the thread from it’s early days, and I almost skipped it simply this time because the post was AI generated. I only read it because of our recent interaction on a related thread. I was barely able to read it after the click-bait style first sentence. So, in short, I don’t think AI added much to this conversation.

@Springer

To be clear: I had not even seen the post at all prior to the revision.

Hmm. You two didn’t see the previous post.

After excluding me and @Mohammad the count is 2. Because @Mohammad’s comment is unrelated to this post.

@Scott_Sauyet, It seems you’re uncomfortable with the sales pitch tone of AI. I think AI’s approach to writing by starting with evoking a sense of connection is something worth learning from.

@Scott_Sauyet

Note: I split some posts from here into the Page breaks for printing/PDF Generation topic, because they seemed useful stand-alone. But if you haven’t read them, it’s probably worth doing.

Since I have no need for printed output, only for instant messaging and AI interaction, I haven’t focused on pagination issues. However, that earlier post also inspired me to use the kin plugin for this post.

[tomzheng]

@Mark_S

If you use the “tag” approach, you can also use @Mohammad 's sections plugin, which takes a filter you give it to create a single tiddler from all your tiddlers, but in sections. This is handy is you want to systematically review your existing material, without being overwhelmed by sheer content.

@Mohammad’s section plugin elegantly implements single-page display.

[TW_Tones]

@tomzheng

@Scott_Sauyet, It seems you’re uncomfortable with the sales pitch tone of AI. I think AI’s approach to writing by starting with evoking a sense of connection is something worth learning from.

clearly a matter of opinion. I immediately felt it was verbose and felt a little bored.

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

actually it is hierarchical perhaps even networked.

using tagging tree operator is a way to flatten a hierarchy of titles into a list.

Indeed, nodes on the official TiddlyWiki site can have multiple tags. It’s not linear in the traditional sense. By “linear” here, I mean being able to expand all levels at once, allowing you to see from start to finish without needing multiple clicks to jump around. I’m not sure what term to use to describe this concept.

Tag tree operator?

@TW_Tones

@pmario revised toc code would likely make the transclusion of a flattened toc easy through the item template.

Can it transclude all relevant nodes?

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

clearly a matter of opinion. I immediately felt it was verbose and felt a little bored.

Consider deleting some redundant sentences and retaining only the most Brilliant ones. For example, this Brilliant sentence:

Most people still crave that simple, linear experience: open, scroll, done.

AI writes with far more literary flair than I do.

[TW_Tones]

@tomzheng

Tag tree operator?

see mention here Recursive filter operators to show all tiddlers beneath a tag and all tags above a tiddler

finds all tiddlers in the hierarchy like the toc and returns a list of titles. I use only a depth first version that came later.

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

see mention here Recursive filter operators to show all tiddlers beneath a tag and all tags above a tiddler

It seems kin better suits my needs.

The tag tree can get t1 but not t1.1.

[pmario]

@tomzheng

@TW_Tones

@pmario revised toc code would likely make the transclusion of a flattened toc easy through the item template.

Can it transclude all relevant nodes?

Yes, it can iff they are tiddler based.

It can not show a tiddler toc based on sections like headings. That was not the goal.

[TW_Tones]

@tomzheng

The tag tree can get t1 but not t1.1.

Yes the Kin filter is marvelous and fully featured.

Tagging tree operator can fully walk a hierarchy and return all titles. But it truly flattens it to a list so no you can’t then establish the hierarchical relationship (except for next/previous and position within) without recalculating it.

• Tagging tree is great when you only want the list. For example it could be used when walking a hierarchy to discover the items position in the linear list.

One thing here is when you have a list of titles this can be given to a list widget, and within that list widget you can transude each and every tiddler, or use a macro like translink macro or one of your choosing.

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

Yes the Kin filter is marvelous and fully featured.

Tagging tree operator can fully walk a hierarchy and return all titles. But it truly flattens it to a list so no you can’t then establish the hierarchical relationship (except for next/previous and position within) without recalculating it.

• Tagging tree is great when you only want the list. For example it could be used when walking a hierarchy to discover the items position in the linear list.

One thing here is when you have a list of titles this can be given to a list widget, and within that list widget you can transude each and every tiddler, or use a macro like translink macro or one of your choosing.

I just visited https://yaisog.tiddlyhost.com/. The tagstree has been renamed to descendants. The modified plugin now correctly outputs “t1.1”. It can replace kin.

The translink macro can replace the following “export” to generate a flattened single page.

We need a core macro similar to the toc macro to transclude all hierarchical content

Inspired by @Mark_S. Here’s a simple kin-based solution. This approach can flatten tiddlers and includes a directory at the front. Add the content “<<toc test/t1>>” to the tiddler test/t1. Select “Filer” in Advanced Search. Enter [kin[test/t1]] After obtaining the search results, export them to static HTML.

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

@pmario revised toc code would likely make the transclusion of a flattened toc easy through the item template.

• @pmario can you release this independent of the core macros such as mtoc for modern toc?
• we, especially you, put a lot of effort into it, let’s publish before it ages away?

Could you give me a link?

[TW_Tones]

Try this, Check for updates and versions. TOC-macros Rewritten (+ a lot of new fuctionality) - Part 2

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

Try this, Check for updates and versions. TOC-macros Rewritten (+ a lot of new fuctionality) - Part 2

[quote=“pmario, post:39, topic:13467, full:true”]

@tomzheng

@TW_Tones

@pmario revised toc code would likely make the transclusion of a flattened toc easy through the item template.
[/quote]

Can it transclude all relevant nodes?

Yes, it can iff they are tiddler based.

It can not show a tiddler toc based on sections like headings. That was not the goal.

Based on my attempts, the macro itself does not possess transclude functionality.

This macro can generate a TOC using any field. Thus, when combined with $list and translink, it facilitates the creation of flattened single pages.

[TW_Tones]

@tomzheng

I just visited https://yaisog.tiddlyhost.com/ . The tagstree has been renamed to descendants. The modified plugin now correctly outputs “t1.1”. It can replace kin.

I will just point out the original taggingtree and tagstree filter operators are still available and while only applying to a standard tag hierarchy like tiddlywiki.com’s content and toc macros it is simpler to use for this set of common cases.

@tomzheng

Based on my attempts, the macro itself does not possess transclude functionality.

I have not looked in detail recently but it is achieved through the list item template ie you can instead of displaying the title or caption of each tiddler in the list use a template to display each, this allows that template to be written to transclude the content or other fields, macros etc…

[tomzheng]

@TW_Tones

I have not looked in detail recently but it is achieved through the list item template ie you can instead of displaying the title or caption of each tiddler in the list use a template to display each, this allows that template to be written to transclude the content or other fields, macros etc…

Understood.

ViewFieldTemplate is used to generate the display text for tree links. It does not have the capability to transclude all tiddler content to generate a flattened single tiddler.