Community curated editions - Note-taking edition

#1

We have discussed this subject a bit in these previous topics:

• TiddlyWiki is very powerful but gives too much freedom to new users. I lost myself: A story and an idea
• Vote – Community curated TiddlyWiki editions: First steps

I would say that the time has come to make some attempts at building a community-curated edition. It’s likely that since it’s the Christmas period, many users will have little time, but I’ll start creating the topic anyway so anyone who wants can start sharing their ideas.

From the past survey we saw that the most voted edition was the “Note-taking” edition - so I would start with that.

I would open a discussion/brainstorming here:

1. How it would be best to proceed with the creation of the edition (in an organizational sense).

2. Even more specifically what in your opinion would constitute a good “Note-taking” edition. Sharing how you use it, maybe some solution you created or that you would like to have if it existed.
(2) However, keep in mind that we are talking about a starting edition that must leave the possibilities of customization open, and indeed, if possible, encourage them.

So we start to collect ideas on the content of the edition and also think about how to best organize our efforts.

I imagine there will be many conflicting ideas, so it is possible that a “leader” in the future may be needed to guide the construction of the edition.

In this regard, having created the previous topics myself, I feel like I’ve put myself in a privileged position to “lead” the project: but if someone was needed to lead the project, it would be better not to be me, even though I started the discussions. :joy:
I intend to contribute as much as I can to this project, but keep in mind that I still am a fairly inexperienced user, and I don’t know how best to handle this - I just don’t think I’m the best fit. (So if someone wants to help me with this, they are well received)

Precisely in this regard, let me know if in your opinion it is better to have two separate topics: one for the organization of the project, another for the brainstorming of the “Note-taking” edition’s contents.

2 Likes
Community curated editions - How best to coordinate our efforts?
Community curated editions: "Recipe list" edition
#2

Hear! Hear!

I would like to suggest again that we don’t start with the most important one. I think we might learn a lot doing our first one. In doing so, we’ll probably make some mistakes that we won’t want to have stand. But if it’s our top entry it would be harder to decide to redo it. If we start with something more toward the middle of the list – perhaps Recipe List – I think we might be able to do the whole thing more effectively.

Actually, in many ways, I think this makes you better fit to lead this.

This is a tool for newer and less experienced users. It’s their perspectives that should guide how it’s designed and built. Those with more experience will be essential contributors: they will be able both to suggest useful techniques and to steer us away from minefields. But the final choices should be made by someone who can most easily support the target audience’s perspective.

But also, in a community like this, unless things get really contentious, leading an effort like this mostly involves facilitation. The only time when a clear leader will be important is if the conversations bog down and someone needs to make a decision so that we can proceed. For that, I nominate you! :wink:

I would very much like to help. But, although I’m well beyond novice at this point, I’m not one of the power-users who will be able to offer the most advice.

I think it would be easier if they’re separate. There are plenty of people who might be interested in one but not the other. After we’ve done, say, three editions, there will also need to be discussions about tools for presenting the editions effectively; that will likely be its own independent topic.

3 Likes
#3

I second Scott_Sauyet’s vote, it seems like you have a vision in mind for how this could be achieved, which is paramount for anything involving collaborative work.

The rest of us, be it beginners to veterans, have our own set ways on making things, and having one person or governing group decide on the final way things should be helps smooth things over.

And, being you created the general discussion, I think that privilege would fall to you first and foremost.

2 Likes
#4

I second that. I think that the recipe list is a good candidate, because it’s clear to define and more light-hearted than other editions from the middle of the vote results (Project planning, Bibliographic database, Data log). It should be relatively easy to do it sufficiently good.

And I also agree to what has been said about @SnapSam leading the effort.

1 Like
#5

The conversation so far has mostly been about the first question. I agree with the comments that said to try the recipe one first and that @SnapSam is a good choice to lead it.

I will address below my thoughts on the second question, “What would constitute a good notetaking edition”.

  1. Some form of relinking (updating links when a tiddler title changes) should be incorporated.

  2. Link-to-tabs or some other way of quickly opening tabs should be incorporated. Saves a lot of time.

  3. Autocomplete for links is also an essential time saver.

  4. Sidebar resizer plugin was a lifesaver to me when it came out. It allows the user easy customization. I realize that it conflicts, probably with centralized themes, but I think a centralized theme is forcing on the user something they may not want. So I would vote against a centralized theme for an edition like this.

  5. I would recommend that some of the space-hogs of default TiddlyWiki be reduced for this and all editions. I created stylesheets to thin out the tiddler margins, reduce the gap between tiddlers, and reduce the size of the space above the site title. Also good would be to reduce the size of the tiddler title and viewtoolbar. I have a feeling that developers have second screens with lots of room (I do too). But many users have regular laptops, or tablets or phones, and need to have space freed up.

  6. A lot of notetaking apps try to have a way so the user can focus when writing and editing. To hide all the non-essential clutter. I did some of this in Stroll’s edittemplate (Stroll — A Roam-like experience in a free, downloadable file, create a tiddler then click the “double downward arrows” at the top of the tiddler in edit mode to see the options I have there). But more work could be done, like incorporating a full-screen button for editing. More thought should be put into ways to make this ideal.

  7. One of the things I struggled with for years is the (for new users) laborious process needed to create new buttons for the editortoolbar: a) clone an existing button, b) change it without breaking anything, c) create an image tiddler for what will go on the button. I use editor toolbars constantly to insert a span class (for colors, indenting, etc) or to insert a “subsume” (details element macro, see The Subsume Plugin — Turn links into sliders!), or to insert the bibliographic data after taking a note while reading. Now it has become habit for me so I don’t think about it. But maybe there could be some kind of mechanism that could ease the process.

  8. Ideally we will want to accomodate both inductive, start from a particular and build your way up to the general, and deductive, start with the general and drill down from there to the details, and some way they can meet in the middle. Sometimes I want to take notes on particulars (“child” or “tree” tiddlers), and then relate them to “parent” or “forest” categories. Tagging is an obvious answer. Other times I want to create an outline or panorama tiddler that lets me see the whole forest, and from there the easiest way to drill down to the trees is with linking. But these two approaches (tagging and linking) don’t let the topics “meet in the middle” (that is, so that there are no gaps in the chain from general to particular). We will need to show users how to do that no matter what their style happens to be. In other words, don’t just think of tools and UI, think of workflows, and build to the best workflows.

  9. Maybe we could have a few basic list-searches installed, and instructions on how to create more as the user needs. Personally I can’t live without a list-search plugin. The general search is great but gives too many results. List-search not only reduces the results to a certain criteria, but also gives the flexibility to assign the list item template, so that results can be viewed as links, details elements, transclusion, etc. Some kind of mechanism to change how the results are viewed would be cool. I never thought of this before. Shoot, now I have something else to distract me with today…

  10. We should help users quickly add the source of the note when reading. If the tiddler is “To kill a mockingbird”, then the notes can just be pasted and the page number added. But if the notes are going to be used in an article or as notes under a topic or category, then the source of the note needs to be included. I don’t know the best way to do this. My own workaround is having an editor toolbar that pastes the source, and an edit-text area of that button’s tiddler visible in the sidebar so I can change the source information as I move from one source to the other. But that edit-text area shows the entire button tiddler contents and would be confusing and ugly for new users, so a better approach is needed than what I do. A footnoting plugin or some way to hide the source information would be good, to let the emphasis be on the note, not on the source information.

  11. Build in a lot of optional styles (font colors, styles for headers (h1 etc), table formatting styles, etc.), and easy ways to add them.

  12. Okay, last thought. The more wizards that can be incorporated to guide the users’ process of creating custom tools, and reduce their time and stress, the better. Wizards for creating editortoolbar buttons, tabs, list-searches, list widgets, the solution for sources in #10 above, etc. Wizards should be optional and non-intrusive for those who don’t need them, but available for those for whom they would save time and stress. Wizards are, I imagine, complicated, and it would be easy to dismiss this idea, but I really think it is an area that is overlooked that could make TiddlyWiki more inviting. Not everyone should have to go through the learning curve to be able to take advantage of the many ways of doing things in TiddlyWiki.

Well, I realize this may be “too soon”, as you might decide to do another edition first before a notetaking edition, and “too much” as maybe some of these ideas will get shot down. But I wanted to get my ideas down now, while I felt inspired, so you can consider them if and when a notetaking edition becomes an active project.

I have spent many years experimenting with different ways of configuring TiddlyWiki to take notes - see a number of them on Youtube here. I tend to give up on them too soon because I keep coming up with new improvements and ideas. But many of the old ideas still have a lot going for them or could be taken in new directions with your collective brainpower.

Blessings!

4 Likes
#6

Lots of great ideas @DaveGifford.

I find it useful, but mostly for tweaking or looking into the UI. I don’t see a way I would need it in a “normal” workflow on my notes. I’m interested to hear in what contexts do you find it useful.

This should be worth doing regardless of the notes edition. The idea of creating a new fresh theme as one of the things for the 20th anniversary was proposed by Jeremy. Or in the very least it would be a starting point for TW6 design.

The official CodeMirror plugin used to have Fullscreen editing capability, but it is broken now. It would be nice to have in the default editor.

#7
  1. I built a step by step tutorial in Stroll using vertical tabs, and being able to open the tiddler for a tab with a click rather than hunting for it saves me a lot of time.
  2. This would be true of any content using vertical tabs or even regular tabs. For example, I have tabs in my personal productivity TW to separate professional and personal and other to do and info, so link-to-tabs is important there.
  3. If I create my own custom sidebar tabs, it is helpful to be able to open them quickly to make changes.
#8

I agree. But I need to reach the 20 character minimum.

1 Like
#9

Thank you for the nominations. :sweat_smile: :joy: - Alright, I accept the position.
However, I must add that I don’t always have a lot of time (especially during these holidays), but I will do my best.

I think so too. But if I don’t prove myself up to the task, feel free to “depose” me :joy:
Anyway, I won’t be of much help in the more technical questions, since I’m not expert enough.

You convinced me, and I see that others also agree with your proposal. Recipe list it is!

All right, soon I will create the topics :+1:t2: (I hope soon, but I really have little time atm)

Very interesting thoughts, I bookmarked your reply, thank you :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

What is a “space-hog” :joy:?     :rocket: :pig:

#10

@snapsam: What is a “space-hog” :joy:? :rocket::pig:

https://youtu.be/EmI77ZBeJrQ?feature=shared