Announcing a TiddlyWiki App for Apple Devices

Announcements
#21

Q: Would you be interested in a TiddlyWiki app?

Of course and I think this is a great idea too with many opportunities, like you wrote.

Q: What would you use the app for?

Mainly for keeping track of my countless ideas and keep vital information at my fingertips. Of course there are many other apps on iOS doing the same. But over the last 15 months I got familiar with TiddlyWiki and it’s versatile configuration that I rarely use other things/apps.
I find it tempting to tinker around with TiddlyWiki whenever I have some spare time left, because I almost keep my mobile phone with me.

Oh, almost forgot that I use it heavily at work to gather all sort of valuable information (small projects, contacts, meetings, how-to’s, ticket-tracking, etc.) - never could stay alive without it!
That’s way I’m really keen on having a full working TiddlyWiki instance on my mobile - we are moving towards Windows11 at the office and there will be several security measures, too. Like allowing execution for certain registered apps (all others will be blocked, therefore no local webDAV server), encrypted USB devices only (no decryption outside the office environment means no data transfer to and from private devices) and potentially no custom PlugIns for Web Browsers (means no use of Pmario’s “file backup plugin” ).

Q: How much would you pay per year/month for a TiddlyWiki application that works on all your devices?

I hate software subscriptions in general, because costs tend to pile up. I bought several apps in the past, most of them were one-time-payment. I don’t like to pay for ALL of them in a subscription model.
But for a TiddlyWiki App I would change my mind - why?
It’s finally a good opportunity to spend you some money for your great concept and your many ideas and continous hard work.
15 to 20 pounds per month would be fine for me.

Q: What areas of functionality are important to you?

I’m actually using Quine2 and a webDAV server at home. Along with “Filebrowser Professional” (www.stratospherix.com) and a custom user sync (which runs periodically in the background) I can keep all of my (single-file) Wikis up to date on all of my devices. Filebrowser Pro was a one-time payment and is well worth the money.

As long as the iOS app keeps up with the same functionality like single-file Wikis, this would be fine for me. Sync would be done with Filebrowser Professional.
But I’d also like to evolve, using MultiWiki-Server and node.js TiddlyWiki - so yes, if I could get this additional functionality it would be very nice, too.

What I don’t like is being pushed to use cloud services. As an option, this would be alright, but I also need a chance to keep my data local.

Q: What apps do you already pay for? What makes them good value for money?

Filebrowser Professional (tons of options, the perfect file manager on iOS). Quine2, to run TiddlyWiki on my Apple device.
Most of my app purchases were done to get rid of the annoying ads :wink:

Q: Do you prefer upfront or subscription pricing?

Subscription pricing preferred to show support for Jeremy’s work.

Q: Do you see any risks or downsides with exploring this opportunity?

In the worst case the App isn’t approved by Apple - so I think it is important that you try to approve it early.
But on the other hand I can’t see a real problem why it shouldn’t be approved.
Positive thinking!

Looking forward for a first test with Testflight - where can I sign in? :+1: :sunglasses:

#22

Sure I will benefit from a TW App for Apple, for now I have TiddlyPWA on my Iphone and I use it on a daily basis.

I wonder, which improvements/new features would this native IOs App bring in comparation to a PWA instance of TW?

#23

Hi Jeremy,
Reading again what Features are planned, I thing I would buy the App. But please make it a Single payment.
Sudcription would be okay, if you would provide a service that could replace my hoster.
Here is my idea for the app. It would be great if you tiddlers to desktop widgets. EG to Build your own idea aggregator

#24

[1] Selective Sync-to-Cloud: For a PIM/ Zettelkasten/ Digital Mind Garden (whatever you wanna call it) to serve as one’s Trusted System (per GTD-speak), data storage must be local-first, with the ability to sync subsets of selected content (i.e. a set of tagged or filtered tiddlers) to one’s choice of online repository (could be different wikis, each w/ own cloud clone, i guess via MWS?).

[2] Markdown: .MD being the defacto lingua franca for rich text content across platforms, this is essential for dynamic flow of content to the outside world (i.e. WWW). If TW retains WikiText as its default format for all .TID files, that is OK, just so long as user can set .MD as the default format for all content flowing out to selected online sources, as a “one-and-done” parameter config.

[3] Interop: As a paying subscriber to Apple’s iCloud services, that is a logical choice for the sync partner at least initially… But, in the interest of growing our installed user base well beyond the Apple ecosystem (which >90% of previous posters in this thread would clearly like to see!), it would be very good if sync to competitive cloud services were ot be enabled.

Finally @jeremyruston i have to ask: is this project still ongoing? I went to the Github repo, but there’s been no update there in more than 2 months, so…Any news on this front, i would be most interested to hear about it -and if there’s anything like a TestFight beta release on the horizon, please deal me in!

1 Like
#25

2 posts were split to a new topic: TiddlyPWA questions

#26

D o you need beta testers? I have the tester app you mentioned and have been an everyday user since 2005 who has been searching for iOS method of working with my large nodejs tiddlywiki.

#27

Very much so. I’m currently an Apple user with regards to a Smartphone but Windows for desktop.

It depends on the limitiations with regards to how many seperate wiki’s I can have. I currently have a number of them that are used on a regular basis but the main one is a journal/ organizer.

I’m not sure and it would depend of functionality and what happens to my data after a subscription ends. Current thoughts are about £3-£5 a month though I would prefer a one off payment model.

For Tiddlywiki it would be the ability to access and edit multiple wiki’s on my phone and yet still have access to them on my Windows machines.

I like to locally host my wiki’s so not sure how this will work. Ones I want access to via my phone I currently use Dropbox.

Currently only paying for media subscription services that have apps such as Audible and Netflix, though probably won’t be on the latter for to much longer. Content and ease of accessability.

Upfront payment gives me a greater sense of ownership which is one of the reasons I like TiddlyWiki so much.

My only concerns on how my wiki’s will be synched across platforms without being in the cloud. I can already access for ready only purposes TiddlyWiki via dropbox so the only real benefit of an app is the ability to write and update.

1 Like
#28

Yes. I’ve just reacquired an iPad (from daughter) so went looking for this kind of option. Since retiring I’ve replaced all Apple devices with a Windows gaming computer and Android mobile. Apart from “playing Steam games”, I found TiddlyWiki and found that I could adapt/replace “everything really useful for organising my life” that I used to have on MacOS/iOS.

Accessing a single TiddlyWiki file (research project) in order to introduce it as my tool-of-choice to others joining my project in 2025. I need to try it and assess if it will work with the existing file. I’ve never used node.js — avoiding another learning curve.

Reading your thoughts on how “dropbox” may not work, I wondered if you’ve looked into using Good Reader on iOS? An under-rated app, was an indispensible tool/app for bridging “file access” issues found with other iOS apps. It seemed to provide throughput for almost any file-type.

Hmm… thinking about my current TW use, probably as little as possible or nothing. I would only subscribe (if I had to) for the days/week/month that I need to have access to TW remotely — very rare. In general I work ‘offline’ at home. However, having TW in my pocket out-and-about might mean I use it for other things too in a way that would grow my dependency.

I’m pretty happy using TW via browser offline … BUT I suspect an “app” would make a difference in attracting a broader user base for TW.

I have 2 paid subscriptions, period, on my mobile. Bitwarden and Tasks. They’re almost the only reason I have a mobile phone, since I rarely make/receive phone calls. I don’t subscribe to news or social-media or entertainment other than YouTube premium. Everything else I use is free (forever?) courtesy of being an early adopter. I make annual donations to support some of the services I use frequently.

The risk for me? I’ll know more tomorrow. The risk for you? Not sure — would it disenfranchise the open-source community-minded others involved in TW? Is that why there’s been such a mediocre attempt to market TW to a broader audience? The app you’re suggesting may well be a solution that bridges the yawning gap for users capable of customising TW via macros/scripts etc. and those that struggle to grasp the next step or are just too busy. The situation reminds me of Wordpress 1.0 — if you were a webDev at the time, you just rolled your eyes, “Why?” BUT the marketing worked and soon there was a mix of plug-ins etc. free and premium offered by amateurs and professionals alike, and if you weren’t offering to make “wordpress” websites you’d lose clients.

SO I do wonder why you haven’t gone there already? And what happened to Tiddly Desktop? I imagine it’s because your audience (the people who know who “you” are) is mostly made up of people who can already customise themselves. So an app is definitely going to reach a very different audience, people who will range from curious and/or accidental to those who’ve tried things like Obsidian and a host of other “almost a solution” apps that promise and don’t deliver. How are you going to market this app? If you don’t figure that out properly it will be a risk - time/money to keep up the initial presence in the hope of gaining traction as a “new app”. Have you done a lean canvas?

I love TW but I’m always at a loss to convince anyone to actually try it. An App would offer an introduction or demonstration.

So many useful apps price themselves with a huge gap between “professional” use (including “teams”) and their introductory tier. TiddlyWiki empty.html is currently not a shrink-wrap professional or introductory package for non-coders.

#29

I would be, but not on iOS, as my primary platforms are desktop PC (Gnu/Linux) and an Android tablet. In the tablet, I have replaced TW with LogSeq as the use experience is more fluent, and despite offering less customization, it offers the minimal functionality I need: bookmarking videos, as I have no active oligopolic/panoptic GAMMA (Google Apple Microsoft Meta Amazon) account, and taking quick notes. For my tablet usage, LogSeq with its diaries, outlining and video timestamp functionality is pretty much what I need and I wonder if something minimal but already prepackaged could be available.

As discussed in other places, taming the flexibility of TW to offer it bridging the gap between an app and an app development platform is the crux behind TW. This happens also with Smalltalk systems, and some of us are trying to offer a prepackaged experience with, for example, computational notebooks, over the Smalltalk system. In that way some target users can discover the system behind, while being compelled by an experience that has their use case in mind.

I wonder if the mobile app could be an introduction to TW editions, with a customized prepackaged experience that can be customized even more with different resources: plugin collections, TW books like Grok TW and so on.

Firstly to replicate my use case on tablet: quick general notes and particular notes with timestamps on videos, with outlining functionality as a quick way to generate structure without a keyboard at hand (LogSeq provides screen buttons to organize outlines quickly). Secondly I would like to use it as a sync devices with my wikis. For that I’m using now TiddlyHost + my own TiddlyWikiPharo, which allows pretty customizable workflows, including historic backups and synchronization using Fossil (which I prefer over Git). But something without all technical knowledge would be pretty welcomed for several use cases and people I know. Your mobile device as and sync device for your wikis with the possibility to have historic backups in some cloud service is something pretty useful for me and others.

Here I think that Global South issues arise, as the money you spend online usually is needed more in some local business or people you know first hand in your day to day life and usually there is no Global South fee for online services. That being said, I pay for online services, mostly in the form of hosting and Virtual Private Servers that allow me to deploy my online presence and the one of my professional consultancy. Usually I go for the lower fee ($5 USD) and I can deploy serveral servers. Something below that fee with incremental services could be and option, kind of start as low as $1 USD per month for some amount of online storage and services and go up if you want. Beyond developing Free/Libre Open Source Software myself (and understanding the sustainability struggles behind), also I try to contribute with one time donations to the projects I use, so I can help a little bit with their monetary sustainability and mostly with my time, while keeping my expenses open to more pressing local needs.

Synchronization, historic backup and mobile tailored experience, as detailed before.

I don’t pay for apps, except some indie video games, which I rarely play, indie TTRPG, music and books. Most of my monthly pay is related with online hosting (VPS) and yearly domain names. I try to support indie creators with one pay fee (for example I don’t subscribe to Patreon as I want the flexibility to expend in local business/needs) and monthly/yearly payments are related with my professional online presence, which allows me to do some consultancy. By experience, I think that TW is a good consultancy platform, despite the selling being more difficult to do that with other more well positioned React/Angular/Vue/GraphiQL thingies, but you need to fight against their mind share and showcase the unique value proposition behind TW.

Upfront, with a progressive plan (starting with just $1 you get the basics and can go over the that as you need it).

As usual with FL/OSS the risks are related with creating a healthy relationship between a commons economy inside the community and an scarcity economy for outsiders. For me the balance is related with locating where real scarcity is located: servers capacity, development time, and try to create a flexible and progressive enough payment model so people can be compelled to the plan they benefit the most.

2 Likes
#30

Would you be interested in a TiddlyWiki app? Absolutely! I am exclusively an Apple user MacOS Sequoia and IOS (iPhone and iPad mini)

What would you use the app for? For over 8 years, I maintain both personal and work TW5 single file wikis. Everything from medical work/research, personal knowledge management, property development pictures/progress, AirBnb integration, etc. The single file TW5 grew so large that I had to “break" it apart. I now have 47 different wikis loaded into TiddlyDesktop for various domains or plugin trials. Unfortunately, there is considerable marginal content overlap costing me significant time searching wikis (to avoid updating in more than one location).

How much would you pay per year/month for a TiddlyWiki application that works on all your devices? I will go with another’s answer to this question: $10 /month or $100 /year up-front, for a polished & supported implementation. I used to like “pay once and done” options but am disappointed when future updates want another round of support.

What areas of functionality are important to you? Local-first storage; sync across devices such as MacOS and IOS (like Bear); interoperability with services I have come to rely on such as iCloud (or Dropbox), Perplexity, and Bear. I would like to migrate away from Quine2 because I can only rely on reading from (not writing to) single file wikis from an IOS device.

For this reason I was researching node.js and TidGi (which appears geared for Windows/Android). I maintain copious backups because I have loaded plugins that convert the default language to Chinese without obvious recovery. Then I am stuck loading TW5-Bob (for VS Code work directly on tiddlers) and the whole thing gets way too complicated. In my search I found this old thread about a TiddlyWiki app for Apple which is a perfect solution for me, and likely many others. Attributed to Henry Ford is: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” This would be a significant improvement over faster horses.

What apps do you already pay for? What makes them good value for money? I gladly pay for $1.50/ month for Bear for its instant sync across MacOS and IOS devices, Markdown, image incorporation, and exporting support. I have both iCloud and Dropbox accounts until I fully migrate off of Dropbox. The only reason for using iCloud is that Quine2 did not work for me with Dropbox. This effort would be unnecessary if TW5 app for Apple existed. I pay $20/month for Perplexity, and am interested in tighter integration with TW5.

Do you prefer upfront or subscription pricing?’’ I prefer once and done until an upgraded product wants a whole new fee… Do you see any risks or downsides with exploring this opportunity?’’ I think the risk is being manifested right now - with the effort to complete the app going stale.

Selective backup would be desirable. This way I could install a new plugin without fear of losing functionality.

I convert (almost) all Wikitext into JavaScript. I hate building new features and not being able to wrap something because there is WikiText inside it. Also the ability to export selected tiddlers (either JSON or Markdown) is key.

Clearly I need to visit the TiddlyWiki blogs more frequently. I had no idea this was being considered until earlier today. I would love this app to become a reality.

3 Likes
#31

Please revive TiddlyWiki app for Apple devices!

This Node.js solution available to iOS and macOS is EXACTLY what I am looking for. I have tried TidGi, and see the potential, but I am unable to recover from a setting or link in Chinese that disables me.

I am searching for an alternative. I have too many single file TiddlyWikis and spend too much time searching for information that spans 2 or more of them. Worse is when I have duplicate tiddlers in separate single file wikis that diverge…

I favor self-hosting, offline capable, macOS and iOS (iPhone and iPad) synch, and prefer to move to Node.js (although single file TW5 files is what I know). All my attempts at Node.js devolve into terminal commands, npm upgrades, and trying to keep a browser window open with limited connectivity. Sadly, I have a single file wiki called “Node.js” where I store my terminal commands and research…

Can you recommend an app to purchase or a good resource I can follow that accomplishes my goal?

1 Like
#32

I currently am using Quine 2 on an iPad Pro, and it works great, except that message that it was not able to make a backup when saving.

It allows me to work on the tiddlywiki local and then upload it to tiddlyhost.

one caveat: in ios settings you have to disable smart punctuations as otherwise two – are rendered as a long dash for example.