What is Jeremy’s business model?

#55

Also keep in mind that there are many secondary functions that are required for any subscription service.

Consider:

  • Credit card verification and password validation for account creation
  • Bookkeeping and banking for all account receivables
  • Account cancellations, refunds, late payments, dispute resolution and rejected credit card transactions
  • “Forgot my password” 2-step verification (via SMS or email) and automatic temporary password generation
  • General user “Help Desk” support services
    etc.

Unless these activities are all outsourced to one or more 3rd-parties, they will each take time and attention away from Jeremy’s focus on developing and maintaining the TiddlyWiki codebase and feature set. In the long run, it will probably mean hiring at least one other person to provide these services (or to oversee the 3rd-party outsourced handling).

-e

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#56

That is a lot for a single person to handle alone, I can absolutely agree there. I know I wouldn’t be able to manage that. Welp, my masterplan has quite a few holes in it, it seems haha

#57

IMO the simplest and best thing that could be done right now is put a donate/support button in the top nav of https://tiddlywiki.com/, on the github page and maybe add a dedicated section in the settings of an empty wiki. So very few people ever heard of TiddlyWikiDotOrg - Open Collective, it’s not even mentioned at all on the official website!

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#58

I’ve always thought TW would do well as a VLE for schools and colleges as, in my experience, they are often clunky unwieldy bits of software which are very modal, ie you can find student details in THIS list but NOT from this other list in this other part of the system. I suspect however, that there is a lot of competition in the sector as well as a lot of inertia in changing systems. Wish I had a contact for you @jeremyruston! Hope something turns up.

Edit: VLE Virtual Learning Environment. Less fancy than it sounds. Software for keeping resources/ files/ links for students. Setting assignments etc. https://moodle.org/ is a much used tool, Google classroom or indeed Microsoft teams for education are other examples… Can also be the software used for registers/ commenting/ tracking reporting. Often ends up split into several bits of software that don’t always talk to each other, eg. moodle and Prosuite or bits of it.

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#59

Great points! All true.

Just my thought, there is, I think, inevitably, a scaling up needed for any subscription service to work well.

TT

1 Like
#60

Right!

This brings me on to …

(5) Gifting "The Crown Jewels" Is A Problem? ...

Certainly TiddlyWiki.com is AMAZING for the depth of it’s self documentation.

I do wonder if we are giving away “The Crown Jewels” far too easily, too early?

Compare that to Roam frontage, which is just …

Screenshot 2022-10-20 141812
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Sign Up or forget it.
Just a comment, TT

#61

I had to look that up.
Did you mean A Virtual Learning Environment? ??

1 Like
#62

Yeah. I hate those kind of pages. And I’m not alone. There was a study awhile back showing that people would rather go clean a toilet/w.c. than come up with yet another login/password.

5 Likes
#63

Right. The maintenance of “yet another password” just to see something is a PITA.

For folk like me, who have imperfect memory, that involves adding credentials to a database that is credentialised.

All too complicated to just take a decko.

TT

#64

I am in total agreement.

To that end, I am considering a small, efficient “administrative services division” that a few of the companies I am associated with can share.

After all, my life -long assumption is that if I can pay someone $1 less than what I can sell my time for, in order to achieve an objective, I am ahead of the game in financial terms. Even better, I am also happier because all I have to do is hire someone to do things I do not enjoy doing.

1 Like
#65

Does AROS evoke something to you? At tge beginning, it was Amiga Replacement Project. They started free and asked for donations. They were having some, to cover some of their expenses and have an incentive. For thesee donation were community payments for achieving goals. people were giving money for such and such goals. Monuy was adding. When a goal got up to a certain point, one developper would volunteer to make it, and with the directory of the project, they agree to a date and review process. On completion (total or steps), he would get all/some of the money.

I think we could do a such setup for TW. I have some wishes I would give money to get them done. I see that not as much as being paying the sotware, but paying to get it done or get it done sooner than later.

The money is not billed to donators until the goal has been attributed to someone IIRC but we can and should make our own regulation.

2 Likes
#66

I think that is useful to see!

“Adobe Creative Cloud” took it to an almost absurd level.
It is a very complex system of subscription marketing (over licensing) .

But it functions for them, well …

Screenshot 2022-10-21 191206
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… and more.

Just a comment
TT

1 Like
#67

Incomprehension :slight_smile:

What is it?

TT

#68

AROS is the “AROS Research Operating System”, formely Amiga Replacement OS. Look at https://aros.org

It’s an effort to rebuil Amiga OS as a free software. Man, I was an Amiga fan from 1988 to 1999/2000.

Quite a stunning amigaos over linux was accomplished by Bernd Schmitt with Amithlon, but IP and trademark killed that great piece of software. :frowning:

1 Like
#69

Thanks for the clarification!

My take from it is that lots of great stuff died and more is likely dying as we chat.
The commercial side of the net is pretty horrible.

Just an over-opinionated take, TT

#70

They are the quintessential example of proprietary madness, they exploit there position, and abuse the subscription model to extract dollars. As a result;

  • A lot of people
    • Hate them
    • Hack them and copy prior versions
    • make and use alternatives
    • Demand their work “pay the subscription”
    • Share a licence

Bad example if you ask me :nerd_face:

4 Likes
#71

This ad puts my mind at ease. I still remember TW’s commitment to the next 25 years. I thought at the time that there must be a proper commercialization path to make TW go better, faster and more sustainable in the future.

I am also willing to donate like other people, but donations are just to show respect and not enough to support expenses. In fact, there are too many ways to realize cash. All we have to do is to choose carefully, and support you!

Personally, aside from donating, I prefer the following methods:

  • Community paid consultation: I am willing to pay some fees, and ask great characters to help me solve some practical problems, and these incomes are divided between developers and problem solvers. Community tokens can be issued when necessary.
  • Advertise on the official website.
  • Provide paid support or licensing to commercial users.
#72

The level of expertise and skill that has been generated over several decades of TiddlyWiki development should be invaluable to many companies out there. I know that the skills senior senior developers can offer is unparalleled.

I realize that times can get difficult and that perhaps TiddlyWiki itself might wane in revenue opportunities but that doesn’t mean the work involved is any less valuable.

I personally would hope that if I had a project grow like TW did that I could sustain some work via donations and offset it with part time work in the same field/skill set. I know other “free” (as in “free speech”) project follow this model. Vim is a good example of a project that is community supported while the creator allows donations to an orphanage. While his day job covers the bills.

For this to work I can imagine that TiddlyWiki would need deputies to help work with community contributions and triage them for approval and merge.

Another model is a one time fee. I know a few tools I’ve paid a one time license for. My personal preference would be a donation. But what I would really like to see is a software industry where talented and skill developers don’t have to worry about finding work.

4 Likes
#73

Not sure which approach can make money. They might all be unfeasible. They might all be things everyone already knows. Let’s brainstorm.

  1. CMS (Content Management System) field. WordPress.com makes money by providing cloud services. Others make money by offering content publishing platforms like Twitter that enable mutual interaction.

  2. Note-taking software. Obsidian makes money by providing synchronization services.

  3. Tiddlywiki’s filters and wikitext syntax are programming languages.

3.1. Python secures funding through its foundation. Centralized package repositories like Python’s PyPI and Node.js’s npm rely on foundation support. Guido van Rossum himself earns income through Python-related engagements.

3.2. Red-lang attempts monetization by developing cryptocurrency wallets.

3.3. Perl generates revenue through book sales.

  1. Tiddlywiki functions as a frontend-backend development framework. The frontend-backend framework Next.js created the cloud development and deployment platform Vercel.

  2. Tiddlywiki, like Emacs, is a software platform offering extensive customization capabilities. Emacs is also a project under the foundation. Stallman himself initially earned income by selling software; his current revenue streams include speaking engagements, consulting, and book royalties. The FSF generates income through donations, manual sales, and software sales.

X. Tiddlywiki’s current revenue model involves developing enterprise applications on its platform. REBOL currently operates similarly and plans to offer cloud services in the future.

X1. Some software charges for specific features. Others provide paid features with guaranteed exclusivity periods. Tiddlywiki is also planning to release a paid iOS app.

#74

Hello everyone.

First of all, I’d like to thank Jeremy for the wonderful program Tiddlywiki. I started with many others, and it’s the only one I’ve stuck with.

It’s true that it has a learning curve, but you can achieve a lot with it. In my case, I haven’t made much progress in my 7 years of use, for a variety of reasons. But even so, I learn something new every day or see some development that I can use for my own purposes.

Regarding funding, I think Jeremy’s position on the matter is correct. Regarding funding options, I opt for:

  1. It should be possible to enter niche businesses such as students or universities. Offering “all-in-one” solutions and technical support, obviously through some type of subscription.

  2. Donations, both one-time and ongoing, I think are something that shouldn’t be lacking and that many of us would use.

  3. Some type of patronage to develop certain projects. In my case, I’ve often thought that I’d like to pay money and not have to spend so much time trying to develop things beyond my reach, even though I occasionally achieve something.

It’s true that I would have to decide which projects would be a priority and see how many people would be willing to fund them, but if someone told me that if I contributed 10 euros for a couple of months (to give an example amount and timeframe) I would have a task-based app like the one I need, I would be happy to do so.
Obviously, backers would have “facilities” to request minor adaptations to such apps, but after a short time, these would be open to everyone.
We have many projects that could be considered to provide Tiddlywiki with the necessary tools so that ordinary people could use it without such a learning curve.

These are just ideas; I hope they help.

Thanks, Jeremy, for everything, and I hope you get the funding you need.
And thanks to the forum for your kindness, involvement, and help with those of us with less knowledge.

Hugs.