Vote -- Community curated TiddlyWiki editions: First steps

In that case, I’ll vote for “note-taking” as you advised Justin, though I agree that “worldbuilding” would be more accurate. I’ll also rep the somewhat larger TW-for-TTRPGs community on Discord (and Reddit? I know @intrinsical has shared his showcase/starter edition there before).

And, while I’m not sure how to classify it in the poll, I’d also like to vote for a more “traditional” wiki—a knowledge base (potentially multi-user) that looks more like Wikipedia or a Fandom wiki, even if it leverages Tiddlywiki features behind the scenes. I think this is a pretty common goal among potential users vetting TW; I’ve seen a number of new users asking how to make a Wikipedia-style infobox, for instance.

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Another vote for ”Other”, as in ”Writer’s tool (TTRPG)”, simply as a nod to that being my primary use of TW since around 2010.
But it sure is a good writer’s tool in more general terms, as well!

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To my mind, this would be a distinct effort. I think it’s a distraction from the notion of curated editions.

I have similar reservations to those @Charlie_Veniot and @etardiff expressed, but more importantly now, I think it’s a very different idea, one that should get its own independent hearing.

Update

Sorry, I didn’t really choose the right quote here. I’m suggesting that the idea of an edition-builder is very separate from the notion of curated demo editions . I think it would be a great thing to have, but I suspect that it would end up being quite difficult.

Two thoughts on mechanisms:

  1. I think we would be best served by first doing one of our editions as completely as we can. And it should probably one in the middle of the list, not top- or bottom-voted ones. If we can’t actually complete a first one, then we won’t ever be able to make anything useful, and we should give up But we shouldn’t start with our most important ones; we should have at least one practice run. Once we do one, we can figure out what went right and wrong, and then start building the others from the top of the list to the bottom, perhaps redoing our first one based on what we’ve learned. (At this point, we can also consider going in parallel.)

  2. These editions should focus on getting a practical, useful, and clearly helpful wiki. I think each should have a GettingStarted or similar tiddler that explains what’s going on, what tools are used and why, and how to use it. It should have content that is not specific to someone’s internal usage, but is clearly familiar. I suggested elsewhere that a book organization might focus on “Alice in Wonderland”, pretending to be Lewis Carol. It should also have the equivalent of “Download empty”, which has the same infrastructure but none of the content.

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When a complete noob first downloads TiddlyWiki, they see, basically, a notes app of sorts. By way of analogy, they see a shiny new car.

When a seasoned TiddlyWiki user creates/starts a new TiddlyWiki, they see something entirely different. They see not just a new car, but a factory for making the car (or more cars), a workshop for maintaining the car and a community of minds for tackling unforeseen issues/problems with parts of the car that may not have even existed when the car was first manufactured. Further, they see new roads opening up where none existed before.

Those a two very different perceptions, and I believe hint at the underlying issues of take-up and retention.


I’m not sure any of that needs to be part of this discussion but I do think it shouldn’t be left out due to neglect or oversight.

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This is quite important. This whole effort is aimed at the new users, showing them what can be done, not showing them how to rebuild the carburetor.

And I think we can carry the analogy much further. What we’re looking to build is an auto showroom. “Over here is a sedan, there’s an SUV, and this one is a hatchback. We have pickup trucks over here, and both full-sized and mini- vans. We have panel trucks, semis, and if you want to go the other way, the motorcycle department is around back.”

But you don’t have to take just what’s on the floor today, there are many options. “You can choose color and engine size and pick from four trim levels. We can include heated seats, sun-roofs, built-in GPS, and four hundred other options. We should note that some options are mutually exclusive: you can have a roof rack or a sun-roof, but not both. But mostly you can pick and choose what you want on top of one of our base models.”

We could definitely go further with this. I think this analogy is a near-perfect way to think about this effort.


Note

I don’t know how much this is American-specific. Sales of new cars in the United States mostly take place through independent dealerships which have relationships with one or more manufacturers. They have showrooms which include the recent models from their manufacturers. You might be able to buy off their lot, but they will also arrange a more customized version from the manufacturer. (I may be behind the times. I haven’t bought a brand-new car since 1990.)

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The way that the vote/poll is currently, it’s generating something more akin to a heat map.

Same. Any differences would be minor (though perhaps “legal” in nature). They get allotted a quota by the manufacturer and are pushed and pressured to exceed it. It’s about nothing more sophisticated than moving metal out the door and cash in the door.

Meant to add, it’s faster in the UK. I’ve bought 2 cars in the USA, both were lengthy, almost day-long procedures. I’ve bought 4 houses – all done in an hour or less, way faster than buying a car.

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:thinking: How about a different analogy: player pianos… (You’ll have to put yourself in a time warp and imagine life before decent recorded music. Try to imagine a player piano with quality well-tuned strings, a quiet mechanism, variable volume — the historical player piano was never actually piano (pianoforte) , always forte — and some other magic mixed in.)

Suppose a family wants music, but doesn’t have any skilled musicians in the home. Of course, most piano buyers aspire to play the piano for themselves, but some potential buyers are daunted by the learning curve ahead.

So the player-piano dealer has curated a range of impressive programmed pieces (encoded on scrolls) that can animate and demonstrate the piano’s full range of sounds across a range of genres. The keys move up and down with each note, and you can follow the pattern with your fingers to begin to understand the movements required to play the piano. Maybe you’ll get a private lesson or two, or maybe you won’t need any. Anyway, there’s no rush to learn, since you’ve got professional-quality music all queued up. The scrolls serve as a tutorial, and also as a satisfying source of virtuoso-level room-filling music. Amazing!

What we’re doing here is like an open-source not-for-profit / largely-volunteer version of making scrolls for magical player pianos. We want some simple jazz, some beginner-level Bach, some Chopin, some Satie, some ragtime. Beginners can learn by following along with a beautiful example, but the full power of the piano for original expression is always under their fingertips.

(Of course, some of our scrolls transform the quality of the sound entirely, and the scrolls themselves can readily be cloned and modified to reflect the player’s preferred style, key, tempo, orchestration, what-have-you. This is a magical player-piano after all.)

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The answer is: vote for Stroll. :slight_smile:

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@DaveGifford, could you offer a two-to-three-word caption for the task for which stroll is best suited? (I think I poked around with it once, but I don’t recall details, and I suspect that the spirit of this thread’s proposal invites task-shapes that can be recognized by people who are just orienting to these demos, for whom “Stroll” (and “Roam”) don’t mean anything…

If Stroll is a general-purpose set of note-taking/outlining/thinking tools, is there some content-domain that would be ideal (and accessible/inviting to a broad audience) for making its power and interface affordances especially intuitive?

Nah, I was just having fun because I think of Stroll as an edition of sorts, but the thread is about tasks, and Stroll is still more general in nature.

Link-based note-taking.

This makes it easy to take notes that adhere to The Philosophy of Tiddlers.

Stroll is one of the few kits I know of that really are complete editions.

I’ve been working on my own note-taking kit for awhile. My problem with Stroll was that I wanted to also view my notes in long-form (continuous), and wanted a TOC, which are aren’t easy to achieve with linked notes. For anyone who doesn’t have these particular and possibly arbitrary requirements, Stroll is great tool for note-taking.

[Off topic] Mark S, You might consider my workaround: I do a list widget

<$list filter="" "$:/.giffmex/ListItemTemplate/Details">>

where the text of that list item template is the following:

<details><summary><$view field="title"/> <$link>*</$link></summary><span class="ltgray2"><$transclude field="text" mode="block"/></span></details>

(you could do it `details open’ instead, if you need to read it all at once without opening sliders.

Closed, they act as a toc. Open, they act as long form for reading. On a couple of files I even had a checkbox widget to alternate between details and details open.

I also use that list item template in list-search:

Oh crud. Now I have something else to try. You should move this to Stroll tips page – I think others might be interested too.

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I think I have it at my documenting.tw site.

Perhaps we could talk about instant wikis, takeaway wikis, or shrink wrapped wikis or the minimal empty wiki. But we could also provide components as options and have build to order wikis.

I have demonstrated “Build to order takaway wikis” with technical notes here https://takeaway-wikis.tiddlyhost.com/
For example;

  • Open Near Empty Projectify Edition
  • Select the Plugins tab drag and drop a plugin into with window
  • Then inside the window you can review and configure further.
    • when ready, Hit the download button. You have just created your wiki

Now editions could have a set of plugins and support tiddlers in a package on the same site and dynamically build an edition.

  • They Taylor it, add some other features and download.

People could build editions from the builder and store the settings and share those to create a new curated edition.

  • If we don’t do something like this as a community I may do it to generate editions from me.
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That sounds like a good idea. Let’s do that.