Most of my TW work is done in Node, but I never bother to install plugins through the file system. Drag-and-drop has always worked for me. I really don’t understand the reason for the recommendation.
Of course I don’t use very many plugins, either.
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I think the recommendation was written from the perspective of the developer. If you have a drag-and-drop version of an official plugin, then it won’t update when you update your node version.
But I suspect most of us have more unofficial plugins than official plugins. And for these, there is no auto-update feature, no matter how you install them.
That makes sense. When I develop plugins, I do have folders for them.
I don’t use the CPL myself, but I think that it also has auto-updates…
Don’t put plugins to pligin folder & update tiddlywiki.info, it is not recommended.
Recommended way is drag & drop or click Install button on CPL.
As a plugin author and nodejs wiki user myself, I never recommend people to modify json config file manually or put files into folder manually, it will scare many valuable new users out of tw community.
Not recommended by who? Where?
The official documentation appears to recommend it
- Plugins found using the OS environment variables
- See: PluginFolders
- Using a Node.js configuration option 1 is the most common one
…and says this about drag-and-drop:
- Plugins imported by drag and drop as wiki content
- This mechanism should only be used in a Node.js configuration for testing and debugging purposes, since the plugins are stored in the
tiddlers/directory
— https://tiddlywiki.com/#Installing%20custom%20plugins%20on%20Node.js
I’m not a plugin author, and relatively new to node TW, so I can’t speak with any authority or experience except as a user (with aspirations to be a power user, maybe), but I 100% agree that instructions to modify tiddlywiki.info is scary. otoh, finding drag-and-drop being the only non-scary option from a day-to-day usability point of view, but the doco that says drag-and-drop should only be for testing and debugging? That’s just a different scary.
Recommended on CPL and our chinese tutorial , based on discussion
We care about user growth and new user experiences.
I will find time to update tw5-com doc, but only when I have time…
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This seems to be the “Question of the week”
This will install the plugin as a tiddler to the current wiki in the browser tab, No other node wiki or subwiki will have access to it. This is OK in many cases, but for plugins you use in every wiki within node this is duplication.
I just commented here How to extract plugin content - #17 by TW_Tones if there is a github implementation, the files to install into node (not just a wiki instance within it) may be available in github.
This is a gap between single file wiki use and node documentation.
A few weeks ago I also wanted to install relink into the node implementation within tiddlywiki-app because I want this plugin available to all wikis there in. I must say following instructions was a nighmare and incomplete.
- Personaly I think this should be a warning, or a link to documentation rather than inhibited.
- similarly it should also allow designers to source the files for node install.
Here is an example, I may want to install the internals plugin from the core plugins for research and development but not want it present in wikis a team uses or is published to the internet.
Proposal
What if all plugins came with a link to a zip file that can be expanded into a node instance for instalation then all that remains is to update the tiddlywiki.info file? Perhaps even all core plugins could come in one zip file. Then one just needs to nominate plugins to load.
- But still always permit instalation in the current interactive wiki.
[Edited] Perhaps all Plugin Libraries could come with a zip of all plugins therein, in file format, for instalation on node? This could become part of the library implementation. No special searching or Github hosting would be nessasary.
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When you have 20+ plugins, upgrade them by unzipping + touching folders will be a nightmare. While in the wiki, just need to click buttons to upgrade them.
So this is not a good idea.
In TidGi app, it is replaced by CPL, so even new users come from Obsidian community knows how to install any plugins. Instead of come back to Obsidian or choose Siyuan instead.
While in the wiki, just need to click buttons to upgrade them.
- Will that install the plugin as folder/files in a node implementation?
- What if the plugin was first installed by instalation/drag and drop/Library install into the interactive wiki?
- I understand they would only be in the interactive wiki.
Hm, I am not sure why you say that?
The point is that now if you want to install a plugin into a node install you have to get the plugin folder and its content (presumably using a zip file), then place those files/folders in the correct place within node, and update tiddlywiki.info (not that I have done it often). I am proposing to keep it simple and provide the zip file alongside the plugin (as found is a library).
Hi, I mean unzipping + touching folders is unfriendly for most of users.
Probably tiddlywiki in western world only reach high-end users, but in China there are young student users, and they probably not fremillar with this.
False. You can always drag & drop or click button to install plugin in nodejs wiki. And it is recommended. See my links above.
Let’s make plugin install more friendly to new users!
This sounds great but contradicts what I know. Where are you saying to drop it?
Here is a reference, you may see how sunken-market works https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/695405704
Just like single-html wiki, no difference. I;ve been using nodejs wiki (and make it a tidgi tiddlywiki app) since 2020, and I drag & drop for first year, later I use plugin library like kookma library, later I use CPL.
I feel difficult to manage folders and difficult to upgrade folder content in the first year.
As I understand it unless you create the folder and files under plugins, and add it to tiddlywiki.info they are not made available to subwikis. If you use drag and drop they only install in the interactive wiki and get loaded when it loads, not automaticaly for all subwikis. If you do not use subwikis then this is not an issue, or you are happy for the subwikis to have different plugin combinations.
- MWS is another story.
To be honest I rearly use node wikis and subwikis but I am going on what others have told me. I now want to install plugins in tiddlywiki-app so looking at doing it myself.
- I will test my assumptions.
I don’t think I’m alone in using Node, but never using subwikis. For me, each TW is it’s own folder and its own port number, often run as a service. For this setup, dragging in plugins has always worked.
While I’m looking forward to MWS, I’m most interested in a robust multiple-author mode. For now, dragging in plugins works fine.
For me, the main advantages of Node are the continual auto-save and the easier integration with git. Subwikis simply don’t figure into it.
I feel like at some point we should compare notes, as it seems like we’ve got very similar usage styles. ie, each TW is it’s own folder, own port, etc, plugins via dragging in. Easy integration to git, and MWS more of interest for multi-user than multi-wiki.
It’s also true to say “Subwikis simply don’t figure into it”, but for me that just leads into the question “what is a subwiki in this context?” That word exists exactly one note on tiddlywiki.com, in “TestCaseWidget”, and doesn’t help explain what it is as it seems to be referring to a different thing.
I wonder if there are many others out there with a similar pattern. I have a feeling it might be an intermediate users usage: it’s something that works and feels fairly simple, but might be missing some additional power afforded by more advanced tools… But I’m not too worried about it.
While I simply repeated the word @TW_Tones had used without thinking about it, what I mean here is the sort of configuration found in tiddlywiki.info Files, tiddlywiki.files Files, environment variables, etc., to build multiple wikis with overlapping content from one folder structure. It looks as though MWS will be a more structured and thorough version of a similar idea.
In both cases the “work”, but I see here a clear differentiation between installation of plugins via the interactive wiki “get new plugin” and placement within the file system as seperate files and setting tiddlywiki.info.
- A few comments here suggest this is not the case, and I no longer trust what I am told.
As I understand it, there are two types of plugins: official and community made. And two ways of installation: an entry in tiddlywiki.info, and drag-and-drop.
For official plugins, tiddlywiki.info is the way to go. It’s relatively easy to update that config, and then the new versions come along with any new TW release. Installing official plugins by drag and drop would not be ideal.
For community plugins, drag and drop is super convenient and Just Works, and by chat here on the forum, is the recommended way by a number of folks. By contrast, even after reading the docs a few times about installing community plugins via OS environment variables, or PluginFolders, this method leaves my head spinning and anxious. Either way though, updating a community plugin means getting the latest version and updating by basically repeating the original install)
There are caveats to the above though.
- The tiddlywiki.com documentation for official plugins for node suggests you find what official plugins exist via the control panel. This does not work as described (to great frustration).
- The documentation for community plugins suggests the most common method is PluginFolders and Environment Variables. Which based on reading the doco and reading the forum, I find highly suspect. I still neither understand how this works, not seen anyone advocate it. By contrast, the official doc says drag-and-drop should only be used for “testing and debugging”, which is basically the opposite to what others (more knowledgable than I) have recommended, and what I ended up doing because all the other options looked complicated and/or badly documented.
I stress again all the above is what I’ve concluded from a combination of using TW5 node and never using TW5 single file (though I generate single-file versions from node in a couple of cases), and reading doco and forum here.
We still need a definitive answer to this and update the doco to provide a little more background.
I also use plugin library to install official plugins. Because I can upgrade all plugins in one click using CPL. I don’t want to edit tiddlywiki.info when I’m using note app.
Doc on tw5-com is outdated.
But our Chinese documentation is up-to-date. So I’m fine with it.