Links Tiddlywiki: How does it work?

Nowadays, the https://links.tiddlywiki.com/ is a rather popular site for TW community!

First I thought if a new tool/resource/page was announced and @Mark_S or Saq added it to the https://links.tiddlywiki.com/ then the work was done and the link is there!

Later I think I heard from @saqimtiaz , that anybody can add a resource/ tool, etc. to his/her own TW aggregated by https://links.tiddlywiki.com/.

This way when you look for a tool a solution, etc. in https://links.tiddlywiki.com/ you see many others have bookmarked its page, this can be used as a measure of popularity and kind of rating!

If this true, I think it should be announced in a better way and users are encouraged to do so!

Am I right or am I wrong?

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I agree that making it more clear & promoting how to join would be good.

The About page talks about the technical requirements, but I found how to add yourself to be a bit hidden.

The short answer is, file an issue / make a PR in GitHub:

https://github.com/TiddlyWikiLinks/TiddlyWikiLinks

The URL of your site must be registered in the sites.json file in the GitHub repository. You can go ahead and add yourself if you know how to send a GitHub pull request, or you can post a message to the forum asking for somebody else to create the PR on your behalf. The information needed in sites.json is:

  • Your username
  • The URL of your site

I mentioned some ideas about RSS for links aggregator.

Edit: I re-read your post again. I think you were asking if the same link gets bookmarked by multiple what happens? I agree, would be amazing to show all the people who bookmarked it. Hopefully one of the Links creators will give us some more detail.

As @boris stated! the joining for those who are GitHub users is easy but for others is NOT easy!
So, yes, the docs or tutorial should be improved!

I wish have more explanation on this and other features of https://links.tiddlywiki.com/

I’m not sure why Mohammad is confused – he has 32 links posted!

Github is a bit of a speed bump. It’s a tiny one (for GH) because you can actually edit the JSON file by hand. You need a little speed bump or you will have spammers signing up.

Another approach is to ask someone who is already on GH to add your byline and url to the links list. I would be willing to add people if they want to PM me. You just need something to use as your ID and a url. And some sort of forum name to add to the pull request so Jeremy know who is behind the request. Your link tiddlers need to be formatted per the instructions here:

https://links.tiddlywiki.com/pages/about/

Hey @Mark_S do you know if it combines duplicate links?

Or does the same link get posted many times by different people?

It combines duplicate Urls on the main “link” list , and shows a count so you can see how many times a link was “approved.” I believe it’s modeled after del.icio.us, an erstwhile site for collecting popular links.

If you browse the links by contributor, then you will see a link as described by that contributor. Which may be described differently by some other contributor.

It will take a lot more people adding links before it begins to be a way to gauge popularity of links. Currently it’s mostly contributors’ personal links and then historical links.

I think that the links.tiddlywiki.com resource has a lot of potential, and the methodology of it’s assembly is neat, but in my opinion has some large barriers for new users. I’ve put a lot of thought as to how I can help this situation with my limited skillset, trying to do some mockups or something (I was hoping the site was a TW that I could modify, but alas), but unsure the best way I can help. I will continue to think through this, but I think 3 factors could use the most attention: Access, Organization, Ease of use.

#1 Access
While the requirement to contribute I’m sure is relatively quick and easy - almost by definition the requirement of github’s mention is enough to scare people away. I am curious what the general feel amongst you all is what % of TiddlyWiki’s userbase is github literate? While of the users that regularly post here in the forum it might be as high as 50% or higher, I suspect in the total population including casual readers, it’s much lower, maybe even something like 10%.

Regardless of the real number, rather than collecting a sample of what all-users find useful, we instead get a page of links that only the most technically able people feel are good - in effect, a biased listing. I hate to generalize, so maybe instead I’ll say that as a single data point I’m personally a relatively obsessed user and have used TW steadily for many, many years, but have been to Github now only twice in my life. Once to try the github saver, and one to “post an issue” as requested recently - which I had to watch a YouTube video to figure out how to do. This seems to be considerable friction.

In terms of a recommendation, I’m a little stuck here. I suggested using maybe this forum as a platform to house links as it’s relatively easy to sign up, give thumbs up / stars etc. and with the ability to edit posts, seems to be a surprisingly good fit. As a reference point, I’m a big fan of the software paint dot net: Forums - paint.net Forum (getpaint.net). They have threads and plugin areas where people can ask plugin questions, vote, etc. Very handy for casual users.

#2 Organization
According to the page, there are now 383 topics availble to browse from, and they’re all listed in a giant list that scrolls for multiple pages in a very narrow band.

The “browse” experience currently

Due to the browse experience being so overwhelming, I still find that I keep going back to @DaveGifford’s toolmap

My recommendation would be to have some additional grouping to make it much easier to browse. Aside from a good browsing and search experience, my dream is that we’d also have areas like New / Editor Picks / Popular (need voting!) etc, and then have separation between editions, plugins, themes etc. @EricShulman 's TiddlyTools was a lifesaver in the pre-TW5 area this way. Something like the web browser extensions area would be a good thing to aim for in my opinion.

Chromium Edge Extensions Page - could TiddlyWiki have something like this?

#3 Ease of use
Once you find something you want to learn about, you make it to the page where the resource is. I feel it could be a lot more obvious how to get to where you want. The screenshot below is one example. I almost always want to click where the red A is - which either appears to do nothing at all, and sometimes it take me to a page that says there’s an error. I think others might think they want to download the plugin, so they click on the red B button which looks like download, and it does download something, but frankly I’m not sure what?

From what I can tell, the only think I really do need to click is the red D arrow pointing northwest?

I would recommend making the link to the site first, more prominent, and more self-explanatory.

Anyways, I know this was a long post and one that’s critical of people’s hard work (which I HATE to do) - though I tried to be be as constructive as possible, and I am happy to help be part of the effort to evolve if others agree.

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@Mark_S thanks for your considerable effort in explain this. I am largely in agreement including finding links unfriendly, preferring David’s list. I actually have no problem giving people the ability to submit links via github for the record, but I do not think it should be the final end user resource. There should be other ways such as a request, As you say perhaps they can be curated here in discourse or alternatively a separate community resource.

For me links, plugins, macros, editions… are the elements of tiddlywiki against which all documentation refers so a solution that was tiddlywiki element aware and allowed multiple contributors makes a lot of sense.

I would prefer it in tiddlywiki but since we do not yet have internet facing multiuser with anonymous users worked out I would suggest using wordpress as I know it. My previously shared example (early prototype) is here colabteam.net/tiddlywiki

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When I suggested just moving 3rd party plugins into a convenient location, there was great outrage, primarily on the behalf of authors and creators who are mainly no longer among us.

So the best you can do in terms of 3rd party resources is use links to point to various sites. It may seem like an incomplete solution, but it avoids the political mine field of posting other people’s stuff to a central wiki. You could start a curated wiki, but you will be working pretty much from scratch.

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The link to your personal TW is submitted. This is a native TW solution that aggregates interesting links.

I think this explanation here is great and already makes the about clearer.

Mark,

I hear your point, but actually if we made it easy, people would choose to post their plugin details, links to source and repository, even use the site to host their contributions, I believe this would fade as an issue.

I may also add when someone contributes freely to an open source community, I am not sure they have the right to stop others holding curated collections, especially if the collection also go to the effort of pointing back to their source repository if available, noting versions of tiddlywiki it works on etc…

On what are you basing this? Most of these links go to sites that have been very popular with all levels of TW users.

To sign up, you barely need to know anything about GitHub. You just need to edit one JSON file and do a pull request. You don’t need any special software on your computer. But if that’s too difficult, I’m sure you could just send your request to Jeremy and he would add you. Or just make a general request in the the forum(s) and someone will help.

Yeah, I find the part about how to get to the link confusing too. But in theory, this could be the easiest way to go from search-to-site in a couple clicks.

Except a lot of the people that have contributed things have moved on to other things and are unlikely to come back.

Yeah, that’s what I thought too. But the consensus seemed to be that of righteous indignation with various people saying things like “I wouldn’t want my code to be used that way!” So I think it’s a dead end.

Boris,

What do you mean by;

The link to your personal TW is submitted. This is a native TW solution that aggregates interesting links.

You were saying you didn’t want stuff only on GitHub. I was attempting to explain that the use of GitHub is only for setting up your personal TiddlyWiki to submit and aggregate links to links.tiddlywiki.com.

Hi @Mark_S, perhaps I should have been more clear - I apologize. My involvement in this and other topics are not for me per-se, but I’m passionate about expanding usage of TiddlyWiki broadly! I’m not clear who the “target audience” is for TiddlyWiki generally, but I would definitely say that most things currently skew to a more-technical-than-average level of general consumer. Now given that wikitext is a nearly pure / complete programming language that might seem obvious and non-sensical to point out. But, given it’s a note-taking program at it’s base and noting that people consider other more “out of the box” options like Roam / OneNote etc. to be competitors, I’m always looking at how we can reduce the learning curve on the front end to provide assistance for people who only have the skillset for an out-of-the-box experience. I hope that comes across as the common thread of my suggestions. To be clear I do not think we should dumb-down TiddlyWiki in any way, but rather take small opportunities to reduce friction to “non-programmers”.

Regarding your questions:

I have no complaint or concern about the quality of the content in the links, in fact I believe it likely skews heavily in my favor as a somewhat-technical user. However, the recommendation around resources from people who might refuse / are extremely intimidated by github are not represented. As an analogy if the program in question (TiddlyWiki) was written solely in a very popular written language (say English) while the links site required you to go to a site solely in a less common language like Turkish (apparently the 20th most common), then that might be enough friction to prevent all the people who don’t speak turkish from submitting things. They could of course learn Turkish, and it might be very easy, but it’s still friction.

I think I address this above, but again I don’t think it’s too hard for me (though easier would be appreciated :slight_smile:), but rather for more casual, less technical users I’m trying to attract. I have worked in Six Sigma / Process Improvement / Change Management for most of my career, so trying to simplify things to the absolute extreme is kind of baked into my thought process at this point.

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I feel that you’re not grasping how this works. There’s nothing even remotely similar to the complications of learning a foreign language. A foreign language takes years to learn. The tiny bit GH you need to learn could take 20 minutes.

ALL of the links come from TW files somewhere out on the net. NONE of them come from Github! The only thing you need to do with GH is provide your byline and the address of the TW file that contains links. From that time on, all you have to do is update that TW file on whatever platform you prefer. You never need to touch GH again.

You are not, NOT, creating hundreds of links inside of GH! The only part GH has to do with it is to enroll your TW’s url for processing. This is not “learn another language” stuff, and you can even ask someone else to do it for you if it’s too complicated.

Jeremy’s program will look at the list on GH, then use that to process each of the listed TW’s and hoover up the links. That’s how the master list is compiled.

I don’t know what links you think are missing on the list, but you can easily set up your own TW file on the web and start adding your own!

Putting turkish to one side… @stobot asks can we make it easier.

Currently we have a process where either the user creates a PR on git hub and then waits for it to be accepted OR ask someone else to do this.

Can this be made easier?
A sign up form which asks for the needed details on the website and then creates the PR behind the scenes and or sends the info to those who can make it so?

An edition which has a form on the home page which allows a quick creation of links and a link to tiddlyhost on the sign up page?

A browser plugin button that automaticly puts the current web address into your links wiki…

I appreciate some of these would be difficult to implement.

I have been looking into this and it looks like there is a viable path. The details are technical but for those interested:

The catch as always is that implementation takes time and effort.

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Also worth noting that TiddlyWiki Links is also available in TiddlyWiki format, and that customizing the wiki and the HTML pages can all be done via TiddlyWiki. Contributions and improvements would be welcome.

https://links.tiddlywiki.com/wiki.html