Do you use a tags tiddler and how?

#4

  1. I use tag tiddlers to control the color of the tag pill via the color field.

  2. Sometimes I use tag tiddlers with a viewtemplate tiddler that shows the tiddlers tagging to the current tiddler.
    a) simple links
    b) disclosure elments with transcluded text
    c) list-search macros with either of the above

One odd thing about tags tiddlers is that they are not listed in the Missing tiddlers tab or in list filters for missing tiddlers, even though they are missing links inside the tag pill dropdown. It would be nice to have them listed with the missing tiddlers instead of being second class citizens of the missing kingdom.

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#5

But you said…

I want to manage a tags field (not the tags field) and to do that, I want to control what happens when a tag in the dropdown is clicked. That, to me, is a tool I would like on the tags field.

#6

Thanks Dave,

  • In point two where is the view template displaying?, on the tag or a tiddler so tagged? What is the current tiddler in this case?
  • Can you explain a disclosure element please?

I do not think it would be hard to add to or enhance the SideBar > More but already, even if there is no “tag tiddler” they are listed in sidebar > more > tags more > MissingTags.json (300 Bytes)

@CodaCoder but I don’t understand, can you please put it in plain English?

#7

Hi Tones

  1. Disclosure element is also called the “details” element. <details>: The Details disclosure element - HTML: HyperText Markup Language | MDN

  2. The tiddler tagged $:/tags/ViewTemplate that contains a list filter shows up under the text field of any tiddler for which the list filter applies. So if tiddler Foo is tagged Bar, and the list filter in the viewtemplate tiddler is “all tiddlers tagged with the current tiddler”, then a link to Foo will appear below the tiddler Bar. See Stroll for how that works with backlinks.

I think I saw something in the cascading feature, which I haven’t had the time to look at carefully, that you can make some viewtemplate tiddlers appear in the actual text field? Or replace the text field?

Thanks for the MissingTags.json, I will try it out tomorrow. Blessings.

[edit: I tried it out quick now before heading to bed. What I was looking for was more along the lines of replacing the contents of $:/core/Filters/Missing with [all[missing]] +[all[tags]!is[system]is[missing]] +[sort[title]]. That mixes the regular missing tiddlers with the missing tags then sorts them.]

Good night!

#8

I give up, Tones. Really. If I happen to think of another way to say it, I may return. In the meantime, worry yourself, not. :slight_smile:

#9

Actually I see the relationship to Fix and extend tag picker functions where I have commented. I am taking these into account.

#10

Same here as Dave Gifford, I change the colour of tags in the tag manager and indoing so create a tag tiddler with a colour field.

I then manually assign my special tag “z hidden” which reflects my custom set up where tiddlers I do not usually wish to see on the storyriver but don’t wish to bury as system tiddlers are suppressed in almost all filters I use.

#11

Thanks @jonnie45, Yes I recall your doing this. You may be interested in this piece of work I am hoping to have adopted in the core RFC: Conditional UI elements Tabs/buttons and more - #5 by TW_Tones including putting a condition on tags to determine when to display them on the view template.

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#12

My request is somewhat off-topic but since you ask about help in managing tags, here goes.

I would like to be able to nest tags. Workarounds such as tiddlers which are lists of other tiddlers exist, but just navigating the tag pill with sub-tags would be so much more convenient, don’t you think? My go-to tool for quick note taking shared between mobile and computer, Standard Notes, has this functionality and I find it immensely useful.

#13

From prior exchanges here, you surely know I’m a big fan of leveraging the category-gathering power of every tag-home tiddler in my wiki.

One thing I love doing is setting up a view template that displays a dynamic table (Shiraz-based) for children of a tag — and that view template works even if the tag is still a “Missing” tiddler! :slight_smile: A more complex variation: hide this view template element if there’s already a dynamic table in the text field; otherwise show the template with custom field columns as specified in a dtable-fields field (if the tag tiddler has such a field); otherwise display it with my default field columns. (In other words, have a default table view, but get that default overview out of the way when a given tag’s domain calls for a different “slice” overview.)

I also LOVE your filter-pill-style tools, especially the ability to open all tiddlers with a certain tag or complex condition (usually for printing purposes, as I dash off to class with printed discussion points I can reference even while my laptop is occupied displaying a task for students).

Last, you may remember that I’ve pursued ways of having filter-based list results display tiddler titles as tags iff they have children, and having those tags display with their child-count at the right edge of the tag-pill. It’s a visually intuitive way of inviting a viewer to understand exactly which tiddlers in a list stand for categories under which more detail can be found.

Looking forward to whatever further tools you have to share, based on this discussion!

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#14

Thanks for your valuable input @Springer “as usual”.

  • Can I ask you to add to you reply some really simple images of what you talk about? If possible, illustration would help.
  • I am confident there are opportunities in your approach to intergrate with other general purpose tag handling.
#15

A quick version, from my biblio wiki, makes the tag “home” tiddler — even it’s a “missing tiddler” — show a dynamic table, in which all interesting (roughly non-system) fields have columns. The code for this ViewTemplate is as follows:

<$set name="myFilter" value={{!!title}}>

<<table-dynamic filter:"[all[tiddlers]tag<myFilter>sort[length]]" caption:"all <$text text={{{[all[tiddlers]tag<myFilter>count[]]}}}/> items tagging: {{!!title}}" fields:"[tag<myFilter>fields[]] -modified -created -modifier -tags" emptyMessage:" " sort: "title" sortOp:"nsort" stateTiddler:"this oq overview list" sort:page class:"w-100 thead-dark">>

</$set>

So, if you click the tag “attention” and choose the tag’s title from the drop-down, you get plenty of info even though “attention” is an empty tiddler. You get a dynamic table — and what’s dynamic is not just the list of tiddlers under that tag, but also the list of columns showing the non-trivial fields that those actual tiddlers have. :

image
image2588×1324 360 KB

My implementation does depend on Shiraz. Of course, the basic idea of a dynamic table can be implemented in other ways, but @Mohammad’s implementation is already so thorough and powerful. In particular, the carets at left end of the table above allow each tiddler to be previewed in place (displayed according to the system viewtemplate cascade condition). All this means that every tag becomes a powerful home base for looking into all the stuff so tagged.

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#16

The first thing I do add to a tag-tiddler is this:

For short lists

<<list-links "[tag<currentTiddler>]">>

For longer lists

Tiddlers tagged: {{!!title}}

<<list-links filter:"[tag<currentTiddler>]" class:"multi-columns">>

Which depends on the tw-com docs stylesheet: $:/_tw5.com-styles

Later in the process

I do start to create custom view-templates, that fit the use-case. But the first 2 overviews go a very long way.

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#17

For completeness I thought I would add a couple of reasons I plan to use the tag tiddler for.

  • Storing a current tiddler value within the list of tags, for a next previous mechanism. ie using tags as a list you use to navigate a set of tiddlers.
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#18

Yes. And on the same page as that: We can use that tag tiddler (or some field in it) to store the default tiddler to display in any tag-based toc relying on that tag. From my pov, this might as well be the same as the tiddler “bookmarked” along a navigational path through the tag.

#19

I am not sure about this part?, perhaps it is similar to my idea.

If you are interested in ideas and innovation, I am looking at using tags which the default would be the first anyway, but once you start navigating through the list it stores the state/position in that list, so the default is quickly forgotten. I would call the tags a “journey” or “story tag”, as they let you take a journey through the tiddlers so listed. This also could be called a position in a set as defined by the tag.

  • This innovative step I realised here, is to allow this position in the story to be qualified not once for the wiki, but using a new qualify, that takes account of the current user found in $:/status/UserName thus each user can maintain their current position in any journey.
    • An alternate user may even be the same person but wearing a different hat.
  • A user based qualify could have substantial value elsewhere as well.
#20

In a similar vein I am looking into the options to handle “alternative tags fields”. I was reviewing the existing tag operators tag, tags, untagged, tagging with a view to finding the equivalents for alternative tag fields.

  • I believe the set of operators is incomplete
  • This I believe is why I am often forced to return to the documentation to check the correct tag operator
  • There is clearly a relationship between singular and plural eg tag/tags

This has occurred on my journey to consider the original topic to decide if we can create a “tag tiddler” equivalent for “alttag tiddlers”.

  • I need to gain clarity in tags if I want to explore more the use of the “tag tiddlers” and “alttag tiddlers”.

Again please share your thoughts;

#21

I only have one thought (about this)

What always gets me is the use of the plural in, $:/tags/blah. My brain wants $:/tag/blah You know, like $:/state/... not states.

I mean, obviously, it doesn’t really matter, it just bugs me a teeny weeny little bit :wink:

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#22

Think of it in terms of the list field of that tiddler. Shadow tiddlers like $:/tags/blah have a list field of all the tiddlers for blah so you can add, subtract and reorder them. So it makes perfect sense for the tiddler to have the plural ‘tags’

Ah, no, you’re right…

#23

LOL. But then there’s the plugins “space”. I’m perfectly happy with $:/plugins/blah.